It’s kicking off

Russian police arrest over 1000 protesters

Alexei Navalny, has been poisoned and arrested and still had this documentary released 

His wife has been arrested as well. 

Some serious minerals on this chap 

Edited February 27, 20224 yr by Rudy

26 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I recall Putin suggested a demilitarised zone of some description... this is probably where it will all end up.

Trouble is, the longer it goes on the more difficult negotiation becomes... if Zalensky concedes territory there is a danger the Ukrainians will ask "what was all that for?" and he is in danger of ending up swinging from a lamp post.

Give over. Ukraine won't concede territory unless the war is effectively lost, or it becomes inevitable. 

At which point it would likely become a guerilla type conflict.

For Ukraine to lose, support from elsewhere would have to drop off.

How that means VZ will end up being murdered by his own I can't understand. He had never wavered from his fight for his people and country.

52 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Kiev was certainly Russian when I visited many years ago... isn't it a seat of Russian Orthodoxy? 

I think it's becoming increasingly clear that your views on the conflict aren't based merely on a wish to see hostilities cease

18 hours ago, Dimron said:

My view always was (and still is) to avoid war at all costs, this is one of the very few areas where I agree with Trump. We in the UK encouraged this conflict to happen especially as our then PM wanted his Churchill/Thatcher moment... Mr Johnson ignored an arranged phone call with Putin just prior to the invasion as he preferred to address the 1922 Committee, which in my eyes was unforgivable.

I have also recently been on record stating that as a war of attrition is firmly established and grinding on (as I originally feared it would) we now need one of the sides to tip the balance and provide a victory... i really don't care which side "wins", we just need it over and done with. All this drip drop of arms supply is just prolonging the pain, we need to decide even if it means "boots on the ground".

Regarding Mr Zalensky, I would remind him that his primary role is to protect his citizens and his actions pre-war certainly did not achieve this.

 

You are clearly a moonman. I am no fan of Boris Johnson but even if he did miss a phone call from Putin it has absolutely bollocks all to do with what has gone on. Putin is a deranged megalomaniac who is intent on putting the old Soviet Union back together. He needs to be met with force as it is the only language he understands.

Putin saw weakness when he invaded Crimea and the US and EU did nothing. We had built up what we thought was a stable relationship and chose to keep that instead of rocking the boat.

Cheap oil and gas one way, with electronics, knowhow and western luxury items the other way.

It has come back to bite us that decision and in a big way.

Reckon If Trump gets in he could say to Putin, keep what you've got or we will give Ukraine triple what we've given them already? 

And say to Ukraine be happy with this or we won't give you another penny.

Job done.

7 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Putin saw weakness when he invaded Crimea and the US and EU did nothing. We had built up what we thought was a stable relationship and chose to keep that instead of rocking the boat.

Cheap oil and gas one way, with electronics, knowhow and western luxury items the other way.

It has come back to bite us that decision and in a big way.

Exactly, for some reason, we didn't seem to give a fuck when he did that

5 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Reckon If Trump gets in he could say to Putin, keep what you've got or we will give Ukraine triple what we've given them already? 

And say to Ukraine be happy with this or we won't give you another penny.

Job done.

I've alluded to that further back in the thread, at present, I think it's the only way that Putin will "off ramp" - it may well only kick the problem another 4 or 5 years down the road, but at least for now we'll be able to stop tipping in billions of pounds that we can ill afford to at the minute

 

edit: we're apparently about £8B in so far, with another £3B/£4B pledged

Edited October 22, 20241 yr by Sweep

3 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Exactly, for some reason, we didn't seem to give a fuck when he did that

Appeasement thinking we were dealing with someone who wanted Russia to prosper and build ties with the West. How wrong we were.

Like Putin took Boris seriously 😁😁

43 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Reckon If Trump gets in he could say to Putin, keep what you've got or we will give Ukraine triple what we've given them already? 

And say to Ukraine be happy with this or we won't give you another penny.

Job done.

He will then go after Estonia, Moldova, Latvia. When are people going to realise what we are dealing with here. Appeasement is not the answer. Putin has shown he is quite happy to put his agents on our streets and kill thousands as would have happened if that nerve agent got in the water supply in Salisbury. He won’t stop until all his enemies are dead. We are his enemies.

11 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

He will then go after Estonia, Moldova, Latvia. When are people going to realise what we are dealing with here. Appeasement is not the answer. Putin has shown he is quite happy to put his agents on our streets and kill thousands as would have happened if that nerve agent got in the water supply in Salisbury. He won’t stop until all his enemies are dead. We are his enemies.

Correct, the sabotage ops that have been going on all over Europe for months as @Tonge moor green jackethas previously mentioned are all low key acts of war.

In fact if it were a lesser nation we were dealing with, with lesser potential consequences, we would already be at war.

This is all still one slight miscalculation on one of these air intercepts that are now happening daily away from a major international incident. One of their clowns nearly ran a US jet out of the sky off alaska the other day, we're right back into mid 80's style tensions.

8 minutes ago, Marc505 said:

Correct, the sabotage ops that have been going on all over Europe for months as @Tonge moor green jackethas previously mentioned are all low key acts of war.

In fact if it were a lesser nation we were dealing with, with lesser potential consequences, we would already be at war.

This is all still one slight miscalculation on one of these air intercepts that are now happening daily away from a major international incident. One of their clowns nearly ran a US jet out of the sky off alaska the other day, we're right back into mid 80's style tensions.

Indeed. We have been very slow to realise that Putin has been at war with us and our allies for years. There is a drama called “The Undeclared War” which is very good at showing how they are actively attacking us. Whether it is Brexit, The NHS or the GCHQ Russia are trying to exert disruption and influence. Ukraine is just one of their fronts against the West.

1 hour ago, mickbrown said:

Like Putin took Boris seriously 😁😁

The same Boris that ditched his security detail and went to a party at the Lebedev's villa in Italy? I'm sure they took him very seriously...

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

The same Boris that ditched his security detail and went to a party at the Lebedev's villa in Italy? I'm sure they took him very seriously...

That should have landed him in jail tbh, a security breach like no other, totally off the scale. Yet he ended up PM.

1 minute ago, Winchester White said:

That should have landed him in jail tbh, a security breach like no other, totally off the scale. Yet he ended up PM.

Mind-blowing innit. But, Starmer had a selfie with Taylor Swift, so they're all the same.

Edited October 22, 20241 yr by Cheese

11 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

That should have landed him in jail tbh, a security breach like no other, totally off the scale. Yet he ended up PM.

Let's not forget also overruling the advice of the intelligence services in making said Lebedev a Lord

1 hour ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Let's not forget also overruling the advice of the intelligence services in making said Lebedev a Lord

Yep. Completely crazy yet unacknowledged by our mainstream media for some reason?

It's almost like Bolty talks out of his rectum when describing British media and especially the BBC he fondly refers to as left wing.

2 hours ago, Winchester White said:

That should have landed him in jail tbh, a security breach like no other, totally off the scale. Yet he ended up PM.

Did Johnson actually commit an offence by going?

Reading the link earlier, he didn't know the place was under investigation by the Italians. And that was in the Guardian, who would no doubt look for any such angle.

Stupid, ignorant, misplaced trust etc etc may all be applicable with regards to his behaviour, but we can't go locking people up without proper process. 

Although of course, the CPS seems happy to try in the case of police officers.

19 hours ago, Winchester White said:

Putin saw weakness when he invaded Crimea and the US and EU did nothing. We had built up what we thought was a stable relationship and chose to keep that instead of rocking the boat.

Cheap oil and gas one way, with electronics, knowhow and western luxury items the other way.

It has come back to bite us that decision and in a big way.

We sent very confusing signals to the Ruskies in the build up... first we sent Liz Truss over there empty handed and then the PM ignored an approach... almost like us giving them the green light.

I would guarantee the call from Putin would have included a suggestion of a deal on gas prices as lone as he was allowed to depose Kolomoyskyi, Zalensky and their political party.

21 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I think it's becoming increasingly clear that your views on the conflict aren't based merely on a wish to see hostilities cease

I was lucky to be able to cheaply travel Europe and beyond in my late teens/twenties as a student and meet people and cultures

16 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I would guarantee the call from Putin would have included a suggestion of a deal on gas prices as lone as he was allowed to depose Kolomoyskyi, Zalensky and their political party.

I very much doubt this would have been the case. And if he had come with that deal and BJ had agreed to it then he would have wanted stringing up! 

Plus BJ is on record as saying that he was sceptical about taking the call - because be believed VP would have lied to him anyway. 

2 hours ago, Dimron said:

I was lucky to be able to cheaply travel Europe and beyond in my late teens/twenties as a student and meet people and cultures

I'm sure you were, but my point stands

Scholz and Macron were in near constant dialogue and negotiation with Putin in the weeks leading to the invasion and it all came to naught

3 hours ago, Dimron said:

We sent very confusing signals to the Ruskies in the build up... first we sent Liz Truss over there empty handed and then the PM ignored an approach... almost like us giving them the green light.

I would guarantee the call from Putin would have included a suggestion of a deal on gas prices as lone as he was allowed to depose Kolomoyskyi, Zalensky and their political party.

FFS 🤦‍♀️ you are puddled

4 hours ago, Dimron said:

We sent very confusing signals to the Ruskies in the build up... first we sent Liz Truss over there empty handed and then the PM ignored an approach... almost like us giving them the green light.

I would guarantee the call from Putin would have included a suggestion of a deal on gas prices as lone as he was allowed to depose Kolomoyskyi, Zalensky and their political party.

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 initially. 

Truss et al weren't on the scene, and it would have made Jack shit of a difference. 

Putin is an evil twat. Simples.