Meanwhile in Israel

[Winchester White]

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

This all reared up because Israel were talking with Saudi about peace and solving this issue. Hamas didn’t like that and murdered 1400 innocent Jews to make sure the peace talks ended… in short hamas prefers israel not to give stolen land back so they can continue to justify murdering Jews. 

When has the Israeli Government ever given stolen land back or ever intended to?

Also, Hamas controls Gaza not the West Bank, there is a big difference.

If only both sides actually had the ability to coexist without a hardline faction on one side or the other fucking it up for everyone.

[London Wanderer]

19 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

When has the Israeli Government ever given stolen land back or ever intended to?

Also, Hamas controls Gaza not the West Bank, there is a big difference.

If only both sides actually had the ability to coexist without a hardline faction on one side or the other fucking it up for everyone.

His attempts to understand the complexities of this conflict are ridiculous.

At least just be honest and say you don’t have a clue like others have.

[Sweep]

24 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Another illustration of how this conflict is not a left or right issue. Maybe it’s better to say right or wrong. People will still disagree. 
 

People will always disagree, it's just a mess

It's wrong for Israel to continually force Palestinians off their land and illegally occupy it - this has been going on for years, and won't stop.

It's just as wrong for Hamas (allegedly on behalf of the Palestinian people) to continually do acts of terrorism - this has been going on for years, and won't stop

I can't help but feel that the Palestinians and the Jews are continually let down by those who lead them - but nothing will change. Even when this spat is over, it'll only be for a few days/weeks/months/years and then it'll all kick off again.

There will never, ever be a lasting peace in that part of the world, and both sides are as guilty as each other for where we are now.

[Mounts Kipper]

31 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

When has the Israeli Government ever given stolen land back or ever intended to?

Also, Hamas controls Gaza not the West Bank, there is a big difference.

If only both sides actually had the ability to coexist without a hardline faction on one side or the other fucking it up for everyone.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

Edited November 12, 2023 by Mounts Kipper

[Mounts Kipper]

11 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

His attempts to understand the complexities of this conflict are ridiculous.

At least just be honest and say you don’t have a clue like others have.

Read my previous  post. You might find out something you didn’t know. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Mounts Kipper

[London Wanderer]

Interesting read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67378893

 

[London Wanderer]

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Read my previous  post. You might find out something you didn’t know. 

"This all started with Hamas" 

Get a grip mate. 

[Sweep]

I'm amazed that it seems that some people can't agree that both "sides" have been, and generally continue to be, and probably always will be, massive arseholes towards each other

[mickbrown]

6 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I'm amazed that it seems that some people can't agree that both "sides" have been, and generally continue to be, and probably always will be, massive arseholes towards each other

Bonkers isn’t it?

[Winchester White]

19 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

All good and well, now look at the current situation not one from 18 years ago.

[Mounts Kipper]

11 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

"This all started with Hamas" 

Get a grip mate. 

It might be better if you knew a little bit more about the maps you’ve posted. This link might help. 
 

https://aijac.org.au/fresh-air/disappearing-palestine-the-maps-that-lie/

Edited November 12, 2023 by Mounts Kipper

[Mounts Kipper]

9 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I'm amazed that it seems that some people can't agree that both "sides" have been, and generally continue to be, and probably always will be, massive arseholes towards each other

It’s unsolvable until the likes of Hamas agree to allow Israel and Jews the right to exist. Any solution has to be agreed by all parties this means a negotiated settlement on all sides, Hamas stated position means that no negotiated settlement can ever happen.  This is why I side with Israel. 

[Mounts Kipper]

6 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

All good and well, now look at the current situation not one from 18 years ago.

You asked when have Israel given land back, there was the answer. 

[Winchester White]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You asked when have Israel given land back, there was the answer. 

Fair enough. Shows how horribly complex the situation is and had been since inception. Any simplistic resolution is utterly unrealistic and frankly deserves the contempt it receives from those concerned.

Not pointing any fingers of course.

[BobyBrno]

26 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I'm amazed that it seems that some people can't agree that both "sides" have been, and generally continue to be, and probably always will be, massive arseholes towards each other

Yep. 👍

People still want to bring it onto our streets though. It’s as if we didn’t have our own problems.

[Sweep]

9 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Yep. 👍

People still want to bring it onto our streets though. It’s as if we didn’t have our own problems.

I know, and sadly, well end up having something horrific happen here, as a result of it. It's probably only a matter of time until a bomb goes off, or some other such atrocity in a place like Golders Green, or a predominantly Muslim area. 

[Sweep]

26 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It’s unsolvable until the likes of Hamas agree to allow Israel and Jews the right to exist. Any solution has to be agreed by all parties this means a negotiated settlement on all sides, Hamas stated position means that no negotiated settlement can ever happen.  This is why I side with Israel. 

I understand what you're saying, I don't really know enough (or, in reality care that much) to pick a side as things stand. It's too complex for somebody like me. 

I agree that Hamas need to be removed, when they are, they'll no doubt be replaced by somebody else just as bad, especially if Israel don't cease with the land grabs etc. 

I do wonder, and we discussed this in the pub earlier, if this war will lose its interest to the general public like the Russia/Ukraine one has. That barely gets a mentiom these days.

[Ani]

17 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Yep. 👍

People still want to bring it onto our streets though. It’s as if we didn’t have our own problems.

And whilst our politicians (the West in general) rush over to express support for one side. 

[Mounts Kipper]

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

And whilst our politicians (the West in general) rush over to express support for one side. 

Russia, Iran and probably N.Korea support Hamas position, it’s no wonder most of the free world support Israel. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Ani said:

And whilst our politicians (the West in general) rush over to express support for one side. 

That's disingenuous. The west is also the entity pushing for a two state solution. 

It seems that the Arab nations largely aren't.

Until that changes, then quite rightly, support will be given to Israel.

Turning a blind eye whilst another "Nazi" style genocide occurs is unfathomable. 

[Sweep]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Russia, Iran and probably N.Korea support Hamas position, it’s no wonder most of the free world support Israel. 

Aye. Turkey as well apparently

[BobyBrno]

9 minutes ago, Ani said:

And whilst our politicians (the West in general) rush over to express support for one side. 

I’ve said before. There are 3 sides. I’m with the side against Hamas. Just like the West in general. How about you?

[Mounts Kipper]

3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

That's disingenuous. The west is also the entity pushing for a two state solution. 

It seems that the Arab nations largely aren't.

Until that changes, then quite rightly, support will be given to Israel.

Turning a blind eye whilst another "Nazi" style genocide occurs is unfathomable. 

And it’ll be the west who rebuild, feed and give billions in aid to the Palestinian people when this is all over. While most Arab states will quietly disappear into the background. 

[Ani]

13 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

I’ve said before. There are 3 sides. I’m with the side against Hamas. Just like the West in general. How about you?

I am not on a side. It is pretty simple. 
 

I certainly do not support Hamas and blame them for the escalation.

[Ani]

24 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

That's disingenuous. The west is also the entity pushing for a two state solution. 

It seems that the Arab nations largely aren't.

Until that changes, then quite rightly, support will be given to Israel.

Turning a blind eye whilst another "Nazi" style genocide occurs is unfathomable. 

It is disingenuous to say our politicians are supporting one side ? 
And then you say 'support will be given to Israel' ? 
 

Not sure what point you are making ?