Meanwhile in Israel

[Spider]

It’s just Northern Ireland with bigger numbers

[Zico]

5 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Like you then?

Yeah, like me 

I'm a terrorist sympathiser too

Go Hamas

[Mounts Kipper]

22 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Sure, but the current Israeli government was voted in by the Israeli electorate and is still in power so it's silly to claim there isn't significant support for it

The Palestinians voted for Hamas whose stated policy is to exterminate all Jews and Israel, is it any wonder a good number Israelis voted for Nethanyu.  Having Hamas next door is most likely a major factor in pushing Israelis towards a hard line government.  

[Farrelli]

Hamas have more widespread support than before this started so job done for them.  You cannot destroy a terrorist organisation by force as it just hardens their cause. We need a ceasefire now and negotiations to start asap. It’s the only way. 

[London Wanderer]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The Palestinians voted for Hamas whose stated policy is to exterminate all Jews and Israel

If only if it was that simple

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

As with Israel, it isn’t. 

[London Wanderer]

17 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

Whatever his popularity at the GE, he’s not very popular now. As I’ve said previously, in January a poll showed 85% of Israelis were dissatisfied with his handling of the crisis in Gaza. Yesterday a big protest in TelAviv. More should be made of these things.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-dismisses-election-calls-thousands-protest-tel-aviv-2024-02-17/

Good. I’m aware he’s not popular and wasn’t before the massacre. 

I hope they go for a more moderate party. It’s the only way if a meaningful peace process is to happen.

85% people being dissatisfied doesn’t take away what I was saying though. Dissatisfied could mean anything. More radical parties have been on the rise in Israel and this is having a huge impact in the West Bank. 

[Traf]

As the song goes, they've just got to get used to living next door to Hamas...

Sorry, heard the Alice song on the radio this morning and it's now in my head as hamas.

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

If only if it was that simple

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

As with Israel, it isn’t. 

I know this… still more Palestinians voted for Hamas than the moderate alternative, while knowing they were an organisation who want to exterminate Jews and Israel… how did those Palestinian's who voted for Hamas think it would end up.

 

Furthermore if the Palestinians can’t get rid of Hamas then someone else has to try or at least weaken them significantly. Leaving Hamas in power is bad for the Palestinians, removing or weakening them is good for Palestine in the long run. 

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I know this… still more Palestinians voted for Hamas than the moderate alternative, while knowing they were an organisation who want to exterminate Jews and Israel… how did those Palestinian's who voted for Hamas think it would end up.

 

Furthermore if the Palestinians can’t get rid of Hamas then someone else has to try or at least weaken them significantly. Leaving Hamas in power is bad for the Palestinians, removing or weakening them is good for Palestine in the long run. 

I would fully support Isreal in doing this if it looked like they planned on leaving some of Palestine left for what's left of Palestinians to live in once it's all "over"

what they are doing right now is not good for either Israel or Palestine in the long run

[Mounts Kipper]

6 minutes ago, Zico said:

I would fully support Isreal in doing this if it looked like they planned on leaving some of Palestine left for what's left of Palestinians to live in once it's all "over"

what they are doing right now is not good for either Israel or Palestine in the long run

I don’t see any alternative any other than to crush Hamas. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

10 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I don’t see any alternative any other than to crush Hamas. 

I'm quite sure there will be enormous funding for rebuilding, both from within and from the wider international community.

[kent_white]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Leaving Hamas in power is bad for the Palestinians, removing or weakening them is good for Palestine in the long run. 

I get what you're saying. And to an extent I'd agree with you. But if I was a Palestinian father whose wife and kids were now dead, stood in the ruins of his former home - I'd just want revenge. 

[Mounts Kipper]

3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I'm quite sure there will be enormous funding for rebuilding, both from within and from the wider international community.

Only if Hamas are removed methinks. 

[Mounts Kipper]

Just now, kent_white said:

I get what you're saying. And to an extent I'd agree with you. But if I was a Palestinian father whose wife and kids were now dead, stood in the ruins of his former home - I'd just want revenge. 

But they’ve hardly got the wherewithal to attempt revenge…. They could join another terrorist organisation and kill another 1300 Jews but then they’ll just get obliterated again. Sometimes you got to look at the bigger picture… go for peace, remove hamas get the best deal off the jews you can possible negotiate and try move forward. Ultimately the superior military strength of Israel will win out.

[DirtySanchez]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

But they’ve hardly got the wherewithal to attempt revenge…. They could join another terrorist organisation and kill another 1300 Jews but then they’ll just get obliterated again. Sometimes you got to look at the bigger picture… go for peace, remove hamas get the best deal off the jews you can possible negotiate and try move forward. Ultimately the superior military strength of Israel will win out.

Hamas are hardly sat in their kitchen making explosives 

They're getting serious gear from the likes of Iran 

Even if the Hamas as we know get wiped out, do you think that Iran will give it up as a bad job, especially when there will be a load of Palestinians pissed off with Israel?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Only if Hamas are removed methinks. 

Well, I wasn't debating that either way, but a respons to Zico's comments, but now you've said it, I reckon aid will ensue whenever the conflict is over. How much may indeed be affected by the state of Hamas, given their abuse of previous aid in constructing missiles and feeding their fighters over others.

[Farrelli]

13 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

But they’ve hardly got the wherewithal to attempt revenge…. They could join another terrorist organisation and kill another 1300 Jews but then they’ll just get obliterated again. Sometimes you got to look at the bigger picture… go for peace, remove hamas get the best deal off the jews you can possible negotiate and try move forward. Ultimately the superior military strength of Israel will win out.

As usual you only look at things from one side.  Israel should not have created settlements in the West Bank in contravention of international law. That is the bigger picture. 

[kent_white]

32 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

But they’ve hardly got the wherewithal to attempt revenge…. They could join another terrorist organisation and kill another 1300 Jews but then they’ll just get obliterated again. Sometimes you got to look at the bigger picture… go for peace, remove hamas get the best deal off the jews you can possible negotiate and try move forward. Ultimately the superior military strength of Israel will win out.

So by that rationale - Israel just needs to keep obliterating Palestinians until they either stop fighting back or are wiped out. Which is genocide isn't it? To all intents and purposes I mean? 

Edited February 19 by kent_white

[Casino]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I know this… still more Palestinians voted for Hamas than the moderate alternative,

even then, assuming they had much of a choice, the majority of the current population werent even born

[Mounts Kipper]

12 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

As usual you only look at things from one side.  Israel should not have created settlements in the West Bank in contravention of international law. That is the bigger picture. 

I can see the things Israel have done, but the bigger picture is Israel have the military power and the backing of the USA and ultimately decide when and what they do, the Palestinians need to negotiate the best deal they can get, removal of Hamas will allow them  a better deal than harbouring them in Palestine.   

[Farrelli]

29 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

Hamas are hardly sat in their kitchen making explosives 

They're getting serious gear from the likes of Iran 

Even if the Hamas as we know get wiped out, do you think that Iran will give it up as a bad job, especially when there will be a load of Palestinians pissed off with Israel?

Absolutely. It is a futile, counter productive war being waged by Israel. It will never achieve its objective.

[Mounts Kipper]

1 minute ago, Casino said:

even then, assuming they had much of a choice, the majority of the current population werent even born

That's by the by, they need removing, Palestinians cant do it so the solution is for Israel to  remove them... Palestine cannot move forward with Hamas in charge unless you can come up with an alternative solution?   

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I can see the things Israel have done, but the bigger picture is Israel have the military power and the backing of the USA and ultimately decide when and what they do, the Palestinians need to negotiate the best deal they can get, removal of Hamas will allow them  a better deal than harbouring them in Palestine.   

To take that to its conclusion, Iran joins in backed by Russia and Israel starts being targeted. America comes in backed by UK. Then we have a world war. Where does that leave us?

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Only if Hamas are removed methinks. 

Aye 

But Israel are going about removing Palestine 

Targeting the cancer by chopping off the head in order to kill the whole thing

[kent_white]

Keep one eye on Venezuela and Guyana by the way. That's one false move from erupting too......