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Kachunga - victim of racist abuse


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Just now, Casino said:

But why boo

You know what, if mj and sb asked me not to, even if i was inclined to, id not do

I think we would all owe them that, even if we were thick as pigshit racists

I don’t know why boo

With out sounding harsh I’m not arsed just want to watch the fucking football 

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2 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Frank - you deserve considered answer to that question because it's clearly being asked in a genuine way rather than with an agenda.

Forgive me if I resort to the past to explain the present in the broad context of living in a society that has freedom of speech and thought. There have been many examples in totalitarian/dystopian societies of people who have not conformed and as a result been hounded, bullied, tortured, killed as a result. Sometimes those pressures are brought to bear in a more subtle way.

In Germany in the war you had to reply to "hail Hitler" in kind when someone addressed it to you. A failure to do so would have brought the finger of suspicion upon you very quickly. Toleration of other views was not in the culture.

In the USSR you may know of a composer called Dmitri Shostakovich. During those days Russian composers had to compose music in a certain way to convey support for the regime (bombastic, upbeat, contented Mother Russia stuff). When Shostakovich composed other varieties of music he was blackballed/persona non-grata and very lucky to get away with his life. Stalin was not a man to upset. The composer spent weeks on end waiting for a knock at the door. He may have intended to thumb his nose at the Kremlin, he may not. Either way he did not have freedom of thought and expression and paid a big price for not conforming.

With gestures like taking the knee my fear is that we get to a stage where a failure to "conform" gets taken a certain way. There's a pressure that comes with all this stuff - thinking back to last summer with the statue-toppling and the protests. It boils down to "do as we do with this gesture or you're a racist" etc. You've seen exactly such sentiment directed at me on this thread.

I would imagine many who boo taking the knee are at one and the same time appalled that Elias Kachunga has suffered racial abuse. It seems hard for some to understand how this could be possible. It is possible because people don't want to have to make ostentatious gestures to prove over and over again that they have purety of thought. They want to be able to prove they aren't "racist" by the way they live and engage in their communities on a day by day basis.

I smell a rat when people are being rounded upon when not engaging in such pre-ordained gestures or going a stage further and showing their opposition to such a gesture. Such a sinister culture is at odds with living in a free and open society. This is why I get so annoyed with wokery - it is not open to diversity of thought and is at root deeply intolerant of the views of others. It is like holding a conversation with the Borg.

 

Thanks for the response.

Never seen it like that myself, because I see the message being sent as a positive one.

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1 minute ago, DazBob said:

But there are quite a few on here he would have no problem with anyone booing him when he takes the knee at the next home game.  Does that not make you feel uncomfortable?

Your just carrying stuff on now for the sake of arguing or your just on a wind up, PH's post had valid points if you considered to read it properly, and like some have said on here, we are all behind Elias Kachunga, and let's hope Sharon and our club can root out the abusive racist twats who are responsible, surely we can all agree on that.

 

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10 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

I’m not talking about racism, I’m on about rudy chirping up to my response to cheese 

You resorted to threats of physical violence on an internet forum, which completely vindicates my opinion that you have a "tiny mind".

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20 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Frank - you deserve considered answer to that question because it's clearly being asked in a genuine way rather than with an agenda.

Forgive me if I resort to the past to explain the present in the broad context of living in a society that has freedom of speech and thought. There have been many examples in totalitarian/dystopian societies of people who have not conformed and as a result been hounded, bullied, tortured, killed as a result. Sometimes those pressures are brought to bear in a more subtle way.

In Germany in the war you had to reply to "hail Hitler" in kind when someone addressed it to you. A failure to do so would have brought the finger of suspicion upon you very quickly. Toleration of other views was not in the culture.

In the USSR you may know of a composer called Dmitri Shostakovich. During those days Russian composers had to compose music in a certain way to convey support for the regime (bombastic, upbeat, contented Mother Russia stuff). When Shostakovich composed other varieties of music he was blackballed/persona non-grata and very lucky to get away with his life. Stalin was not a man to upset. The composer spent weeks on end waiting for a knock at the door. He may have intended to thumb his nose at the Kremlin, he may not. Either way he did not have freedom of thought and expression and paid a big price for not conforming.

With gestures like taking the knee my fear is that we get to a stage where a failure to "conform" gets taken a certain way. There's a pressure that comes with all this stuff - thinking back to last summer with the statue-toppling and the protests. It boils down to "do as we do with this gesture or you're a racist" etc. You've seen exactly such sentiment directed at me on this thread.

I would imagine many who boo taking the knee are at one and the same time appalled that Elias Kachunga has suffered racial abuse. It seems hard for some to understand how this could be possible. It is possible because people don't want to have to make ostentatious gestures to prove over and over again that they have purety of thought. They want to be able to prove they aren't "racist" by the way they live and engage in their communities on a day by day basis.

I smell a rat when people are being rounded upon when not engaging in such pre-ordained gestures or going a stage further and showing their opposition to such a gesture. Such a sinister culture is at odds with living in a free and open society. This is why I get so annoyed with wokery - it is not open to diversity of thought and is at root deeply intolerant of the views of others. It is like holding a conversation with the Borg.

 

Why can’t some people realise you can be against the knee and not be a racist. 

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Just now, radcliffe white said:

I don’t know why boo

With out sounding harsh I’m not arsed just want to watch the fucking football 

Fair point

As it happens, i like the fact i get to applaud them :)

and it pisses off mr 15 paragraphs

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2 minutes ago, royal white said:

Why can’t some people realise you can be against the knee and not be a racist. 

Maybe we could if you'd explain why you're against it? Bearing in mind the players, manager, and owners have all made it clear that it's nothing more than an anti-racism gesture...

Edited by Cheese
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3 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Your just carrying stuff on now for the sake of arguing or your just on a wind up, PH's post had valid points if you considered to read it properly, and like some have said on here, we are all behind Elias Kachunga, and let's hope Sharon and our club can root out the abusive racist twats who are responsible, surely we can all agree on that.

 

No, I'm not on a wind-up.  It's a genuine question.

I've no issue with whether anyone agrees with the taking of the knee or not - that's up to them.  What does get my back up is those that feel the need to boo it and those who think it's fine for them to do so.

Would you feel uncomfortable if our own fans booed Kachunga when he takes the knee before the game? A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

... and for the bold bit above, yes, of course. 👍

Edited by DazBob
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1 minute ago, royal white said:

Why can’t some people realise you can be against the knee and not be a racist. 

Nobody has yet given a valid reason to be against the knee at bwfc

Nobody

Let alone the fella who chucks many more accusations about than cheese

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Just now, DazBob said:

No, I'm not on a wind-up.  It's a genuine question.

I've no issue with whether anyone agrees with the taking of the knee or not - that's up to them.  What does get my back up is those that feel the need to boo it and those who think it's fine for them to do so.

Would you feel uncomfortable if our own fans booed Kachunga when he takes the knee before the game? A simple yes or no will suffice.

I've not booed the players, why are you asking me 🤷

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Just now, Mr Grey said:

That's just to much to ask for these days unfortunately 😕

I know you 2 and youre oddballs but decent fellas

If it disrupted your day, i could understand your frustration

Football is suppised to be a release

But its 10 fucking seconds

You could just fill the time with a crafty tug....yours not his

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1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Most of us manage it. Just keep your eyes open, and follow the ball. It's not hard.

It's quite funny how you take things out of context.

Go on I will wait for the "can you explain....... "

 

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1 minute ago, Casino said:

I know you 2 and youre oddballs but decent fellas

If it disrupted your day, i could understand your frustration

Football is suppised to be a release

But its 10 fucking seconds

You could just fill the time with a crafty tug....yours not his

Your asking why other fans are booing the players, ask them, we aren't booing the players 🤷

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18 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

I’m not talking about racism, I’m on about rudy chirping up to my response to cheese 

Because I don’t like the threat to a fellow wanderer that someone is going to nail him. 

Id be the same if someone said that to you 

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1 minute ago, Mr Grey said:

I've not booed the players, why are you asking me 🤷

I'm just asking if you'd feel uncomfortable or not if others did.  Not sure why you're avoiding answering.  Radcliffe did and whilst I can't see things from his perspective I respect it.

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6 minutes ago, royal white said:

Why can’t some people realise you can be against the knee and not be a racist. 

Because if you like closing down any opinions other than your own, trying to de-legitmise other trains of thought can be achieved by trying to cow people with accusations of racism. You've seen these behaviour patterns on this very thread. 

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Just now, DazBob said:

I'm just asking if you'd feel uncomfortable or not if others did.  Not sure why you're avoiding answering.  Radcliffe did and whilst I can't see things from his perspective I respect it.

I AM NOT booing the players, ask those that are.

Q: Do I agree with others booing. 

A: NO

Happy ?

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1 hour ago, Mr Grey said:

"If you talk about it, it exist, it's not like it exist and we refuse to talk about it. Making it a bigger issue than it need to be is the problem here"

Morgan Freeman 

This, this, this....it's the strategy of Taking the Knee that's flawed, and all because they latched on to BLM at the start and now in a cul-de-sac.

Why do the manager, chairman, chairman of the EFL need to get involved with a single comment from some lowlife. It's giving it oxygen in a totally disproportionate way.

Why not big up the huge strides made in  this area over the years and just ridicule that individual for how out of kilter they are with society when balanced with several thousands of people at the match on Monday fully supporting the team and players, this would be a far a better message than OTT umbrage.  

And this was the issue after the Euros, the numbers of racist Posts were extremely low -when compared to the global viewing public - yet if you watched the news channels it was like a racist pandemic, which it clearly isn't in this country. The Rashford mural another example of a total overreaction.

Just read a report Kane had the highest volume of abusive messages at the end of the group stages so not even a race thing. Is it less abusive if race not involved??

Taking the knee is divisive the longer it goes on regardless of its original intentions, especially if there is no actual end point stated. And if that is meant to be the total eradication of all racist comments online then it will be a long wait given global non-verified access to social media.

And in the meantime its dangerously portraying a society that is fundamentally racist, when clearly it's not.

 

 

Edited by JimmyRiddle
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1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

The most amusing thing in all this is that booing the knee is a sure fire way to keep it relevant and will make sure it stays.

Indeed. For those who want to see it stopped, the worst possible thing they can do is boo it.  The only thing booing it achieves is to make sure it carries on.

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3 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Because I don’t like the threat to a fellow wanderer that someone is going to nail him. 

Id be the same if someone said that to you 

But your quite happy for other posters to insult others an insinuate that they are racist. 

You should go back and read the context of the post, I'd have reacted like that. 

We all seem to agree that the Elias Kachunga abuse is despicable, its getting a bit heated, maybe its time to knock this on the head and start again on another thread.

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18 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Maybe we could if you'd explain why you're against it? Bearing in mind the players, manager, and owners have all made it clear that it's nothing more than an anti-racism gesture...

I think I’ve explained numerous times. I’m still waiting for your ideas on how to combat this and why you think the suggestion to come off social media is racist? 

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