little whitt Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 9 hours ago, wanderer1984 said: Boris is a Wanderer, He wears a Wanderers hat. He pays for the Wanderers, And he's a fucking twat!. He laughs at the left wing, He runs down the right. He couldn't score a goal if he played all fucking night! thats vary good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little whitt Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 10 hours ago, Farnywhite said: Heard they make a good screw out of moving the magistrate courts to the ground. Would of thought they are making money out of hiring the area out for Covid vacs otherwise it would be costing the club money £3k a day for the room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L/H White Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Football Vultures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted January 27, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted January 27, 2022 https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19878292.government-future-fund-loan-share-conversion-affect-bolton-wanderers/ Quote WANDERERS have confirmed that a £5million Government loan taken out during the pandemic has now been converted into shares – but what does that mean to the club? It is now known that Bolton’s parent company, Football Ventures (Whites) Ltd took advantage of a loan from the £1.1bn Future Fund to help offset huge losses during 2020 and 2021 as Covid forced football to grind to a halt. Rather than repay the loan, it has been converted into an eight per cent stake in the club. But how does that bode for the future? We looked as some of the questions being asked by Bolton fans after the story broke and tried to give an explanation. WHAT IS THE FUTURE FUND? The Future Fund was a Government-backed loan scheme designed to help ‘innovative’ companies during the pandemic. Fees of between £125,000 and £5million were offered, provided the amount was at least matched by private investors in the company themselves. The scheme is now closed but helped 1,190 companies whose revenues had been affected by Covid. Some of the companies have paid back the loan, others – like Bolton - have converted it into equity in their business. The Future Fund will get their money back further down the line. WHY DID BOLTON NEED A LOAN? The pandemic forced an early finish to the 2019/20 season and meant that the whole of the 2020/21 campaign was played without supporters. Even though many fans dug deep to help offset the problem by buying season tickets, the club still lost around 70 per cent of the money they would have ordinarily got through ticket sales, merchandising, hospitality, and sponsorship during that time. The Future Fund loan was available and considered preferable to a bank-based loan which would have been secured against club assets. HOW MUCH OF WANDERERS DO FUTURE FUNDS OWN? The deal means eight per cent of the shares in Football Ventures (Whites) Ltd – Wanderers’ parent club - are now owned by the Future Fund. WHAT DO THE EFL THINK? The league only get involved if an entity’s stake in the club is more than 10 per cent. At that point it is considered ‘significant control’ and the people responsible would need to pass the owners and directors’ test. HOW MUCH ARE THE SHARES WORTH? A quick sum shows that an eight per cent stake in the club sold at £5m means 100 per cent of the club is valued at £62.5m. But realistically, this won’t be the case unless Wanderers bounce into the Premier League. The Future Fund will obviously expect a return on their investment but how that happens is, as yet, unclear. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? This is the big question. It remains to be seen what the Future Fund do with their shares. There may be an agreement for Football Ventures to buy them back further down the line at an agreed rate, or they could be made available for other investors – even fans – to purchase. Either way, it seems unlikely that a Government-funded loan scheme would consider a football club a long-term investment. From Football Ventures’ point of view, they have successfully negotiated a difficult spell without saddling the business itself with more debt. The eight per cent of Wanderers that they no longer own only becomes an issue if and when they close to sell the club. IS THIS A GOOD THING? It depends on your viewpoint. It does not tie any debt to the club itself, as past loans taken out have done. Football Ventures were not in a position to repay a £5million loan instantly and the portion of the club they have given up does not mean the Government, or Future Funds can call any shots. Some may question whether taxpayers’ money should go towards the operation of a football club – and it is already well documented that the furlough scheme has also been used. Others will be happy to see a solution has been found which limits risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger_Dubuis Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 12 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: Do we have to pay it back? Yes.There is no time limit on when it has to be repaid but FV cannot sell the club without it being repaid either by them or the next owners when they buy the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Cheese said: https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19878292.government-future-fund-loan-share-conversion-affect-bolton-wanderers/ Seems fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said: Yes.There is no time limit on when it has to be repaid but FV cannot sell the club without it being repaid either by them or the next owners when they buy the club It looks like a no brainer to me, FV don’t have to pay it back unless business is sold, (that was my concern) if they sell the club for let’s say 20 million then the 8% shares worth 1.6 million. Good business for FV not great for tax payers. Edited January 27, 2022 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Imagine sweaty ken had done this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 27, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted January 27, 2022 48 minutes ago, gonzo said: Imagine sweaty ken had done this He probably wouldn't have met the lending criteria. With him being a previously failed, thieving twat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 49 minutes ago, gonzo said: Imagine sweaty ken had done this Hmmm, indeed. How you perceive the story will always depend on your starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 My initial take on the deal is that they've done well to get the club valued at £60m+, as to only give 8% away to secure the loan. My concern is that FV had to borrow the £5m to start with and that they were quickly keen to dilute their own holding. One wonders if they'd be happy to sell another 41.6% for £26m (same deal pro-rata) and effectively own 50.4% of the club without having invested any money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, Traf said: My initial take on the deal is that they've done well to get the club valued at £60m+, as to only give 8% away to secure the loan. My concern is that FV had to borrow the £5m to start with and that they were quickly keen to dilute their own holding. One wonders if they'd be happy to sell another 41.6% for £26m (same deal pro-rata) and effectively own 50.4% of the club without having invested any money? I think they’d snap someone’s hand off for that deal…. Surely they can’t find someone stupid enough to offer that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 27, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted January 27, 2022 Perhaps they've put in as much as they can or are prepared to until it starts to yield something longer term. They have invested plenty already remember. In the circumstances, when football clubs all over were screaming out for help, it's very unlikely that a stream of other investors were knocking on the door for a piece of the action. The money won't have been given out that easily neither (unlike the other scheme with non existent companies scamming £50k). Good business sense, taking advantage of whatever opportunities are around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 52 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I think they’d snap someone’s hand off for that deal…. Surely they can’t find someone stupid enough to offer that. I agree, anybody who'd be happy to stump up north of £25M and not have a controlling share, would surely need their bumps feeling.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 It is just all a bit tacky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Horwich Posted January 27, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2022 I am loving all of the bipolar wanderers fans and their heads falling off on twitter 🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deane koontz Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, gonzo said: Imagine sweaty ken had done this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: I think they’d snap someone’s hand off for that deal…. Surely they can’t find someone stupid enough to offer that. You wouldn't have thought so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonk Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Traf said: My initial take on the deal is that they've done well to get the club valued at £60m+, as to only give 8% away to secure the loan. My concern is that FV had to borrow the £5m to start with and that they were quickly keen to dilute their own holding. One wonders if they'd be happy to sell another 41.6% for £26m (same deal pro-rata) and effectively own 50.4% of the club without having invested any money? Bear in Mind the loan is matched funding so they have pumped in at least 5m of their own "The Future Fund describes itself as “A government scheme to support UK-based companies ranging from £125,000 to £5 million, subject to at least equal match funding from private investors." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Traf said: My initial take on the deal is that they've done well to get the club valued at £60m+, as to only give 8% away to secure the loan. My concern is that FV had to borrow the £5m to start with and that they were quickly keen to dilute their own holding. One wonders if they'd be happy to sell another 41.6% for £26m (same deal pro-rata) and effectively own 50.4% of the club without having invested any money? I think you’ve answered your own question to an extent Traf. They borrowed it as did the vast majority of other businesses - why plough your own money in during exceptional times when you can get cheap debt from the government? There are plenty more wealthy that used government schemes. Keen to quickly dilute their holding - as others (and you) have pointed out, having an offer that values this club at £60m is too good to turn down. Why pay it back when you can get such good value for the money? Also, at 8%, there is no reduction in the control they have and so the business continues to run as they wish, the only impact is that they get slightly less when they sell (but we would have to sell for more than £60m for them to lose out on this deal - and even then, you could argue the £5m that hasn’t been paid back has instead been used to generate the future value). Absolute no brainer and too good a deal to turn down with no actual day-to-day implications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted January 27, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted January 27, 2022 3 hours ago, gonzo said: Imagine sweaty ken had done this Sweaty Ken would have found a way to funnel the loan into one of his other businesses, probably in an offshore tax haven. At least this way it's gone directly to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Horwich Posted January 27, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2022 Every ST holder would be on furlough 🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Take Hunt Off Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Someone played a blinder to get the club valued at 62.5million ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 3 hours ago, gonzo said: Imagine sweaty ken had done this There would of been some serious wanking gone over the artist known as crafty Ken. Thick as mince, he wouldn’t of picked it up and done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter desperado Posted January 27, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Perhaps they've put in as much as they can or are prepared to until it starts to yield something longer term. They have invested plenty already remember. In the circumstances, when football clubs all over were screaming out for help, it's very unlikely that a stream of other investors were knocking on the door for a piece of the action. The money won't have been given out that easily neither (unlike the other scheme with non existent companies scamming £50k). Good business sense, taking advantage of whatever opportunities are around. 47 minutes ago, Gonk said: Bear in Mind the loan is matched funding so they have pumped in at least 5m of their own "The Future Fund describes itself as “A government scheme to support UK-based companies ranging from £125,000 to £5 million, subject to at least equal match funding from private investors." 19 minutes ago, Eddie said: I think you’ve answered your own question to an extent Traf. They borrowed it as did the vast majority of other businesses - why plough your own money in during exceptional times when you can get cheap debt from the government? There are plenty more wealthy that used government schemes. Keen to quickly dilute their holding - as others (and you) have pointed out, having an offer that values this club at £60m is too good to turn down. Why pay it back when you can get such good value for the money? Also, at 8%, there is no reduction in the control they have and so the business continues to run as they wish, the only impact is that they get slightly less when they sell (but we would have to sell for more than £60m for them to lose out on this deal - and even then, you could argue the £5m that hasn’t been paid back has instead been used to generate the future value). Absolute no brainer and too good a deal to turn down with no actual day-to-day implications. Those 3 posts sum it up nicely for me. Good business, which has probably paved the way for this transfer window. Well done and let’s move on with another win Saturday 👏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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