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18 minutes ago, FrancisFogarty said:

I’m with TMGJ on this. FV have been the best thing to happen to this club for years and years.

We’ve all got things that we thought ‘they could have done that better’ or ‘I’d have done this….’ Bits of stuff like they missed a trick not showing up on camera for Vernon Kay’s finish or even the snooker competition at a pinch.

Thing is, it’s all going well, we’re on the up. To be sure there is a ceiling for them and we’ll be looking for more financial  support but at the moment FV are doing a great job.

Apart from fucking about with the buses.

This but not the bit about Vernon Kay or the snooker

And especially the last sentence

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9 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

The buses thing really is a shit do

Think the lack of thought around sales to the smaller away grounds is my biggest issue with FV.

Never used the buses, none come near our house. 
 

Think the  car parks could become a pain, the idea of no stewarding whilst charging £8.20 per game is pretty shit, cars are now parking 2 deep on the actual road which clogs the whole thing up. 
 

Not sure any of that outweighs the turn round on the pitch , certainly nowhere as bad as this was fucking brilliant.

 

Edited by Ani
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9 hours ago, Ani said:

Do you think your unease is a reflection on anything said or done by FV 

Or

a reflection on the way the club had been run for the years before they landed and stories that come out of other clubs.

I might be wrong but I am in the 'they have been brilliant' camp, of course they have been blips along the way but overall excellent, noticeable Sharon is a lot quieter at the moment. 
 

 

Mainly the years before. The odd thing or 2 seems a bit odd but it’s based mainly on history.

Everything is great at the mo, but we’ve had other times like this and I’m just trying not to get ahead of myself,

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18 hours ago, Casino said:

are you guessing

if not, should or must be

No, I’m not guessing, I’ve been involved in enough open offers to know that if I didn’t take up the offer of more shares the value of my holding is reduced. If a company has 100 shares and is valued at £1m each share is worth 10k but if they issue another hundred shares each one is worth £50k which is of course obvious but your % holding remains the same.

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cheers

is that not open to abuse though

lets say FV know theres no way the govt are going to put any more in

if they double the share issue and buy the shares themselves, that dilutes govt holding by 50%

is that really legal?

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1 hour ago, Casino said:

cheers

is that not open to abuse though

lets say FV know theres no way the govt are going to put any more in

if they double the share issue and buy the shares themselves, that dilutes govt holding by 50%

is that really legal?

Just had  a look at the articles of association (via Companies House website). S14 and S15 covers the issue of new shares and specifically mentions Future Fund Shares. I can't claim to understand all the legal mumbo jumbo but I think the long and short is that there are various conditions and restrictions that allow the directors to offer more shares but they can't take the piss.  

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3 hours ago, Casino said:

cheers

is that not open to abuse though

lets say FV know theres no way the govt are going to put any more in

if they double the share issue and buy the shares themselves, that dilutes govt holding by 50%

is that really legal?

Harks back to my earlier question, and I don't know, and the others are offering more informed comments, but I'd say not without conforming to certain rules.

Wouldn't make sense to just issue more shares and buy them, (even if they can) as that would effectively lessen their value individually should someone want to buy them later.

It would also be an underhanded way of forcing smaller share holders out if a major shareholder wanted to take over entirely. I think.

 

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In theory if someone buys (new) shares direct from the company (as appose to buying them from another shareholder) the value of the company increases. Say the net value is considered to be £30m and £3m of new shares are purchased the new net value is £33m. Existing shareholders have a smaller % stake but of a more valuable company.

Previously people have put money into the club as loans which sometimes are  repaid or more recently, and in the case of ED,  waived). If one of the existing sharholders (and the bulk of FV is owned by a small number of people) decides they're happy to put some more money in the pot at a time the other shareholders don't wish to, buying new shares is a means for them to do so and it's reasonable that in return their stake in the company increases. 

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6 hours ago, Casino said:

cheers

is that not open to abuse though

lets say FV know theres no way the govt are going to put any more in

if they double the share issue and buy the shares themselves, that dilutes govt holding by 50%

is that really legal?

Quite possibly offered the govt/British Business Bank the chance to maintain their % and pay off more debt but I'd guess they aren't really looking to increase their exposure. 

Dilution of ownership % is only really an issue if you think we'll be in a position to pay a dividend anytime soon.

I'd doubt BBB give a shiny shite about their voting rights. 

Edited by RoadRunnerFan
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12 hours ago, tomski said:

Mainly the years before. The odd thing or 2 seems a bit odd but it’s based mainly on history.

Everything is great at the mo, but we’ve had other times like this and I’m just trying not to get ahead of myself,

I  think we're in a better position than other boom/bust times in that everything seems open and above board at the moment. There was always a shadow over over BSA deals, and there was more than a shadow about sweaty Ken's dodgy goings on.

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1 minute ago, FrancisFogarty said:

I  think we're in a better position than other boom/bust times in that everything seems open and above board at the moment. There was always a shadow over over BSA deals, and there was more than a shadow about sweaty Ken's dodgy goings on.

Let’s hope so. Nothing would make me happier if I’d be proven to be a wind bag on this subject

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Think people are over thinking the share thing, say club is worth £10m, 10 people own £1m each.

Some else comes along and puts £1m in, the club is now worth £11m, and everyone still has £1m. 
 

You go from owning 10% to 9% , but it is of a bigger pie. Imagine the shareholders get to approve the investment.

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1 hour ago, Ani said:

Think people are over thinking the share thing, say club is worth £10m, 10 people own £1m each.

Some else comes along and puts £1m in, the club is now worth £11m, and everyone still has £1m. 
 

You go from owning 10% to 9% , but it is of a bigger pie. Imagine the shareholders get to approve the investment.

Twixometer economics in all it's clarity. I like it.

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On 21/11/2023 at 21:31, FrancisFogarty said:

I’m with TMGJ on this. FV have been the best thing to happen to this club for years and years.

We’ve all got things that we thought ‘they could have done that better’ or ‘I’d have done this….’ Bits of stuff like they missed a trick not showing up on camera for Vernon Kay’s finish or even the snooker competition at a pinch.

Thing is, it’s all going well, we’re on the up. To be sure there is a ceiling for them and we’ll be looking for more financial  support but at the moment FV are doing a great job.

Apart from fucking about with the buses.

Maybe they've gone "Vernon's raising money for kids, let's not make it about us" or the snooker guys have gone "we're hiring your venue, fuck off trying to get in on the action" or vice versa. 

I think these lot are doing alright. 

"Best thing in many years" is a very low bar being set but they are that. I agree. 

We're on the up but the next leg up gives me big anxiety... Its a fucking minefield the championship.. Every fucker spending beyond their means to get to the prem or prem relegatees spunking their parachute payments gambling getting back into the big time. There's little room for organic growth into the prem it would seem... Luton aside 

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