Brand Evatt

[RUREADY2ROLL]

3 hours ago, victor meldrew said:

Another toilet sleep break 

Yep I woke up and went back to sleep; mind you it was 1am when I went to bed so 5 hours is never enough sleep.

[jmjhb]

3 hours ago, RUREADY2ROLL said:

We might improve our set pieces and finishing with a new coach. 👍

I think we have improved in that regard (set pieces at least) so credit should be given.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

Change of formation required?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Change of formation required?

At least the willingness and flexibility to adapt as necessary, even if we start as normal.

We did in league 2 and previously in this league, including last season at times.

I'm also unconvinced by 3 strikers on the bench. 

2 at the most, and a better distribution of players, midfield, defence, wide men or whatever. 

 

[MickyD]

2 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Change of formation required?

Maybe an occasional change of playing style. Bit of ‘build-it-from-the-back’ a bit of ‘lump-it-upfield’, bit of ‘get-it-out-wide’. Just mix it up.

Teams could get their deckchairs out waiting for us to stop getting as far as the box and then pumping it back to the middle.

[Biggish Dave]

I love Evatt, always have as most know but I'm not blind.

This season ain't working. Our best LWB is on loan at Salford.

For me, we are at a crossroads. Not sure what or who the answer is but we look far from the side who destroyed Barnsley 10 months ago

[Zico]

11 hours ago, Biggish Dave said:

I love Evatt, always have as most know but I'm not blind.

This season ain't working. Our best LWB is on loan at Salford.

For me, we are at a crossroads. Not sure what or who the answer is but we look far from the side who destroyed Barnsley 10 months ago

Or the one that destroyed Plymouth 

We're as good as the opposition allows us to be 

 

[Mantra]

17 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Change of formation required?

As I just alluded to in the Carlisle matchday thread I don't even think it's possible. We've got too many strikers and no wingers other than CMG and maybe Randell at a push.

.               Baxter;

Jones, Santos, Toal, Iredale;

.     Sheehan, Thomason

CMG,      Dempsey,      Randell

.               Charles

 

Is probably the only one I can see working. If Iredale gets injured then Randell has to drop back. But then if Randell injured, or CMG injured - who do you play on the wing? Possibly only other option is Dacres-Cogley.

If you play Charles alone up front, we have Bod, Jerome, Victor, Nlundulu warming the bench. 

 

Try 4-4-2 you have the same issues for the wingers, maybe a bit easier to get Cogley in as a wide midfielder rather than an out and out winger. But then you've got a midfield two of very similar players, Sheehan, Morley, Dempsey, Thomason, Maghoma. Morley and Thomason good passers but not good ball carriers. Dempsey and Maghoma, good ball carriers but not great passers. Sheehan slowly turning into my favourite midfielder as he's got a bit of both about him but very lightweight and in a midfield partnership would need someone with him that can do some of the dirty work, which we don't have.

 

[desperado]

 

[paulhanley]

22 hours ago, desperado said:

 

I think the wisest thing for us to do here now is to recruit someone from abroad to replace Hird. Someone to bring fresh thinking and ideas and, most importantly of all, knowledge of other markets. If there's an element of groupthink in our management team then a move like that would change it all. Depends whether IE and co are open to such lateral thinking.

[Whitesince63]

13 hours ago, paulhanley said:

I think the wisest thing for us to do here now is to recruit someone from abroad to replace Hird. Someone to bring fresh thinking and ideas and, most importantly of all, knowledge of other markets. If there's an element of groupthink in our management team then a move like that would change it all. Depends whether IE and co are open to such lateral thinking.

I fear IE isn’t in that way of thinking Paul, it seems it’s always Evatt’s way or the highway. Obviously you must have discipline and the manager and coaches must be on the same page but I believe that always has to be IE’s page so I expect “groupthink” to always be the case under our Ian. You can have an opinion as long as it’s his!!

[fishbulb]

Quote

But then you've got a midfield two of very similar players, Sheehan, Morley, Dempsey, Thomason, Maghoma. Morley and Thomason good passers but not good ball carriers. Dempsey and Maghoma, good ball carriers but not great passers. 

Er, eh?

[Dr. Feelgood]

14 minutes ago, fishbulb said:

Er, eh?

You've entirely missed the full stop separating those two points.

Deliberately, or accidentally ?

Punctuation is such a sod. It's like it has a purpose.

[gonzo]

Think its pretty clear what you meant tbh.

 

[fishbulb]

Ah, sorry, so I did. As you were. 

[Deanu]

The current formation was used also by both the top two Argyle & Ipswich in a variant last season so it's effective at L1 level. Albeit they seemed to have a lot more creativity than us & had the mindset of turning up game after game with the intention of getting wins no matter what... where as we play the victim card of feeling sorry for ourselves whether it's squad depletion, tiredness or blaming officials. We just lack consistency under Evatt for whatever reasons, we're a Jekyll & Hyde team & you don't know which versions going to turn up. Usually it seems it's down to the way we start matches, if we go at teams from the off we are a real problem for anybody like when we smashed Sunderland 6-1, Argyle 4-0, Ipswich 5-2 in the recent seasons then you have the Bolton who are set up to sleep walk through the entire first half with 78% possession but 0 shots on target at some shitty little ground then be on the end of a 1-0 loss from a scrappy goal. 

[Wanderlust]

Evatt has changed the system mid-game on many occasions and implied that he likes to start off with the 352 whilst they suss out the opposition - however in recent games he seems to be stuck in a rut. Whether this is due to lack of options as regards players who can adapt positioning in the middle of a game or not is debatable, but from what I've seen, we've just been playing crap. Apart from the poor control and misplaced passes, there seems to be a lack of confidence especially when we get into the final third. TBH I don't mind if we lose the ball in the final third providing they are at least attempting a killer pass or shot on goal but we've suffered from faffing around on the edge of their box and losing it when we're overplaying it waiting for the perfect opportunity to come along. Cautious and shot shy with a slow build up is not the way forward for us seeing as we don't have the players to play through packed defences in tight spaces or to beat big defenders to high crosses lobbed into the box.

[embankment]

We play well in spells .

I think of us as a 45 min team .

That can be an amazing half when we can blow teams away .

Or three 15 min periods over 90 mins .

As many have stated,  possession over a season will gain enough points to achieve a top 6 place .

But to achieve top 2 , we have to consistently find a higher gear.

 

[gonzo]

To be a top manager you have to adapt and evolve your ways. Look at Pep, he changes his ways every other season, different types of players and different strategies.

Opposition just figure you out otherwise.

We are so predictable and easy to set up against, playing the same way as last season with inferior players.

Hopefully this new coach brings in some fresh thinking.

[deeane Koontz]

2 minutes ago, gonzo said:

To be a top manager you have to adapt and evolve your ways. Look at Pep, he changes his ways every other season, different types of players and different strategies.

Opposition just figure you out otherwise.

We are so predictable and easy to set up against, playing the same way as last season with inferior players.

Hopefully this new coach brings in some fresh thinking.

 

That's what has surprised me about Evatt because he's such a big Pep fanboy. I thought he'd be adapting and trying new things if it's not working. We're that rigid you get the impression they've trained any type of risk taking out of the equation.

[Mantra]

2 hours ago, deeane Koontz said:

That's what has surprised me about Evatt because he's such a big Pep fanboy. I thought he'd be adapting and trying new things if it's not working. We're that rigid you get the impression they've trained any type of risk taking out of the equation.

That's the way football is going, some would say sadly.

xG and data means it's much rarer to see individual flair and skill and shots from outside the box - especially at the top level. Everything now is about positional play and working chances in a more formulaic manner.

I agree with you in the sense that for all Evatt's admiration of the Pep style of play, it's not as effective as we'd all like. I think a lot of that is down to the quality of players who are instructed to emulate elite-level tactics but they're non-elite players.

There's a good clip of Evatt from last season saying 'it takes longer to do it this way and it's harder but it'll be a more sustainable success throughout the pyramid... whereas the more traditional direct teams in league one that have success will struggle in the Championship.' (paraphrased). I think that's an arguable statement either way rather than a fact. 

I do think Evatt's tried to change things subtly this season. It looks as though the wingbacks sometimes tuck in now, especially Randell, to try and overload the midfield. It also looks as though we are playing with a midfield shape of a deep playmaker and two advanced 8s who all rotate. As opposed to 2 deep and one advanced midfielder considering that Dapo and Shoretire didn't manage to make that work. Probably only Kieran Lee managed to be effective in that role for us.

We are top of the possession stats most weeks, whereas last season I think we actually sacrificed possession for a substantial part of the season - there's another Evatt clip from last season where he says 'I think we've become too transitional and need to get back to keeping the ball more'. (paraphrased)

As a result, we have some nice passing moves and tell our centre backs to play with patience to try and bait a press so we can play through the lines with short passes but it seems to break down far too often on the edge of the opposition box. Not sure what's happened to our edge of the box shots from the midfielders. Dan is really struggling to trap the ball and link up on the edge of the box. Our strikers in general are still missing too many chances or not being effective enough overall.

There's still lots of positives to our play and we are one of the best teams in the league when we're on it but so far the form of the team has been below par and the standard of play overall has not been good enough.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Mantra

[Alf Hartigan]

8 minutes ago, Mantra said:

That's the way football is going, some would say sadly.

xG and data means it's much rarer to see individual flair and skill and shots from outside the box - especially at the top level. Everything now is about positional play and working chances in a more formulaic manner.

I agree with you in the sense that for all Evatt's admiration of the Pep style of play, it's not as effective as we'd all like. I think a lot of that is down to the quality of players who are instructed to emulate elite-level tactics but they're non-elite players.

There's a good clip of Evatt from last season saying 'it takes longer to do it this way and it's harder but it'll be a more sustainable success throughout the pyramid... whereas the more traditional direct teams in league one that have success will struggle in the Championship.' (paraphrased). I think that's an arguable statement either way rather than a fact. 

I do think Evatt's tried to change things subtly this season. It looks as though the wingbacks sometimes tuck in now, especially Randell, to try and overload the midfield. It also looks as though we are playing with a midfield shape of a deep playmaker and two advanced 8s who all rotate. As opposed to 2 deep and one advanced midfielder considering that Dapo and Shoretire didn't manage to make that work. Probably only Kieran Lee managed to be effective in that role for us.

We are top of the possession stats most weeks, whereas last season I think we actually sacrificed possession for a substantial part of the season - there's another Evatt clip from last season where he says 'I think we've become too transitional and need to get back to keeping the ball more'. (paraphrased)

As a result, we have some nice passing moves and tell our centre backs to play with patience to try and bait a press so we can play through the lines with short passes but it seems to break down far too often on the edge of the opposition box. Not sure what's happened to our edge of the box shots from the midfielders. Dan is really struggling to trap the ball and link up on the edge of the box. Our strikers in general are still missing too many chances or not being effective enough overall.

There's still lots of positives to our play and we are one of the best teams in the league when we're on it but so far the form of the team has been below par and the standard of play overall has not been good enough.

 

fair play to anyone who reads that, sorry  Mantra

[victor meldrew]

23 minutes ago, Mantra said:

That's the way football is going, some would say sadly.

xG and data means it's much rarer to see individual flair and skill and shots from outside the box - especially at the top level. Everything now is about positional play and working chances in a more formulaic manner.

I agree with you in the sense that for all Evatt's admiration of the Pep style of play, it's not as effective as we'd all like. I think a lot of that is down to the quality of players who are instructed to emulate elite-level tactics but they're non-elite players.

There's a good clip of Evatt from last season saying 'it takes longer to do it this way and it's harder but it'll be a more sustainable success throughout the pyramid... whereas the more traditional direct teams in league one that have success will struggle in the Championship.' (paraphrased). I think that's an arguable statement either way rather than a fact. 

I do think Evatt's tried to change things subtly this season. It looks as though the wingbacks sometimes tuck in now, especially Randell, to try and overload the midfield. It also looks as though we are playing with a midfield shape of a deep playmaker and two advanced 8s who all rotate. As opposed to 2 deep and one advanced midfielder considering that Dapo and Shoretire didn't manage to make that work. Probably only Kieran Lee managed to be effective in that role for us.

We are top of the possession stats most weeks, whereas last season I think we actually sacrificed possession for a substantial part of the season - there's another Evatt clip from last season where he says 'I think we've become too transitional and need to get back to keeping the ball more'. (paraphrased)

As a result, we have some nice passing moves and tell our centre backs to play with patience to try and bait a press so we can play through the lines with short passes but it seems to break down far too often on the edge of the opposition box. Not sure what's happened to our edge of the box shots from the midfielders. Dan is really struggling to trap the ball and link up on the edge of the box. Our strikers in general are still missing too many chances or not being effective enough overall.

There's still lots of positives to our play and we are one of the best teams in the league when we're on it but so far the form of the team has been below par and the standard of play overall has not been good enough.

 

Please could I order some ice cream with your waffle

[Dr. Feelgood]

8 hours ago, Alf Hartigan said:

fair play to anyone who reads that, sorry  Mantra

I stopped at xG.

[desperado]

8 hours ago, Mantra said:

That's the way football is going, some would say sadly.

xG and data means it's much rarer to see individual flair and skill and shots from outside the box - especially at the top level. Everything now is about positional play and working chances in a more formulaic manner.

I agree with you in the sense that for all Evatt's admiration of the Pep style of play, it's not as effective as we'd all like. I think a lot of that is down to the quality of players who are instructed to emulate elite-level tactics but they're non-elite players.

There's a good clip of Evatt from last season saying 'it takes longer to do it this way and it's harder but it'll be a more sustainable success throughout the pyramid... whereas the more traditional direct teams in league one that have success will struggle in the Championship.' (paraphrased). I think that's an arguable statement either way rather than a fact. 

I do think Evatt's tried to change things subtly this season. It looks as though the wingbacks sometimes tuck in now, especially Randell, to try and overload the midfield. It also looks as though we are playing with a midfield shape of a deep playmaker and two advanced 8s who all rotate. As opposed to 2 deep and one advanced midfielder considering that Dapo and Shoretire didn't manage to make that work. Probably only Kieran Lee managed to be effective in that role for us.

We are top of the possession stats most weeks, whereas last season I think we actually sacrificed possession for a substantial part of the season - there's another Evatt clip from last season where he says 'I think we've become too transitional and need to get back to keeping the ball more'. (paraphrased)

As a result, we have some nice passing moves and tell our centre backs to play with patience to try and bait a press so we can play through the lines with short passes but it seems to break down far too often on the edge of the opposition box. Not sure what's happened to our edge of the box shots from the midfielders. Dan is really struggling to trap the ball and link up on the edge of the box. Our strikers in general are still missing too many chances or not being effective enough overall.

There's still lots of positives to our play and we are one of the best teams in the league when we're on it but so far the form of the team has been below par and the standard of play overall has not been good enough.

 

I’m ok with it!

Mind you I’ve just read 4 pages on the Isreal thread (which was actually very informative!) so needed something different to read! 

I think you’ve made some fair observations.

Adding to your last paragraph, the things we do well need to lead to more goalscoring opportunities and the conversion rate increasing.

 

Kind of linked to your post, I found this graphic quite interesting, albeit open to some misinterpretation based on number of games played by individuals and the position they are playing in.

Dempsey not appearing more in that final third is surprising seeing as he’s played in an advance midfield role most of the season. 

And I think it demonstrates the importance of Santos from both a defensive and creative perspective.