Meanwhile In England

[kent_white]

8 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Places in the North are overwhelmingly effected by immigration, as councils want the money and its cheaper to put them there.

That's why I'm surprised people still swallow the whole levelling up rubbish spouted by the government. If I was living up north I'd be much angrier at the current government than I am.

But also places like Dover are hit, and margate and folkestone but they also have a lot of cash from the way they have been gentrified in parts over the last 20 years.

I've no doubt there is a problem with gangs - I don't think anyone has said otherwise - but across the sweep of the country its a small percentage but hits certain places more than others.

And it's an issue that gets lent on by this government to distract from other - more pressing in my opinion - problem which they haven't sorted out- such as the NHS, so blame immigration and not gross mismanagement.

I think we're probably in agreement on this to be honest 👍

[Not in Crawley]

Just now, kent_white said:

I think we're probably in agreement on this to be honest 👍

Yeah, I believe so.

And you are correct, this isn't the place for reasoned debate 😁

[London Wanderer]

37 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I don't want to muddy the waters here. 

But there definitely IS a problem with Albanian criminal gangs in Bolton. 

I was at a presentation given by Bolton Police recently about the importation and distribution of counterfeit cigarettes. And Albanian gangs were named as being a problem by the Police themselves. They are aware of how they operate. How many of them are here illegally. And how counterfeit cigarettes are the tip of a wider set of criminal activities. 

The police understand how they operate, who the main players are, the businesses that are involved, but they just don't have the resources to deal with it.

TBH - I was quite surprised that they highlighted a nationality - particularly in this day and age. For fear of being called racist. But that's what they said. Don't shoot the messenger. 

I think one of the reasons that we're probably polarised on here, is that Bolton sees a disproportionately large amount of the disadvantages of immigration (strain on resources and public services for example) and less of the positive ones (like this estimated 3% increase in GDP or whatever figure is being vaunted).

Not all immigrants (even Albanian ones) are criminals hell bent on becoming the new Ronald and Reggie Kray. But by the same token, immigration in relatively large numbers is not without impact on social cohesion, public resources etc and so on and so forth. 

We need a proper grown up discussion about it - and I very much doubt WW is the place it's going to get sorted 😁

I don’t think anyone’s denying there’s a problem. It’s clear from those stats re prison population.

The problem lies when folk continually tar all Albanians with the same brush. Or start calling for policies that will target genuine refugees. Even with those prison stats, it’s clearly still a minority of Albanians. 
 

Good to hear the police are using the nationality though and not tiptoeing around the issue.

 Great post mate, and a helpful insight.

[Traf]

8 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

The problem lies when folk continually tar all Albanians with the same brush. Or start calling for policies that will target genuine refugees. Even with those prison stats, it’s clearly still a minority of Albanians.

Correct. It's actually unbelievable you have to put that in print, though, isn't it?

Next up, are all Muslims terrorists or child groomers?

[BobyBrno]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

I don't want to muddy the waters here. 

But there definitely IS a problem with Albanian criminal gangs in Bolton. 

I was at a presentation given by Bolton Police recently about the importation and distribution of counterfeit cigarettes. And Albanian gangs were named as being a problem by the Police themselves. They are aware of how they operate. How many of them are here illegally. And how counterfeit cigarettes are the tip of a wider set of criminal activities. 

The police understand how they operate, who the main players are, the businesses that are involved, but they just don't have the resources to deal with it.

TBH - I was quite surprised that they highlighted a nationality - particularly in this day and age. For fear of being called racist. But that's what they said. Don't shoot the messenger. 

I think one of the reasons that we're probably polarised on here, is that Bolton sees a disproportionately large amount of the disadvantages of immigration (strain on resources and public services for example) and less of the positive ones (like this estimated 3% increase in GDP or whatever figure is being vaunted).

Not all immigrants (even Albanian ones) are criminals hell bent on becoming the new Ronald and Reggie Kray. But by the same token, immigration in relatively large numbers is not without impact on social cohesion, public resources etc and so on and so forth. 

We need a proper grown up discussion about it - and I very much doubt WW is the place it's going to get sorted 😁

You explain it so much better than me😊 Have a 👍

[Tonge moor green jacket]

There are similar tales to be told about other groups too- Eastern Europeans thieving for example. 

GDP increases aren't necessarily the best way of assessing the effects neither. More folk will generally result in more "stuff" being created. It doesn't necessarily illustrate the wealth per person and doesn't reveal the "need" that any population increase brings- infrastructure; housing, power, water, sewerage, schooling, medical services, food production, open green space- all when climate change is producing more flooding and extremes.

[kent_white]

19 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

There are similar tales to be told about other groups too- Eastern Europeans thieving for example. 

GDP increases aren't necessarily the best way of assessing the effects neither. More folk will generally result in more "stuff" being created. It doesn't necessarily illustrate the wealth per person and doesn't reveal the "need" that any population increase brings- infrastructure; housing, power, water, sewerage, schooling, medical services, food production, open green space- all when climate change is producing more flooding and extremes.

I totally agree. GDP is a clumsy tool to inform a decision about an issue as complicated as immigration. But it's the one most often trotted out, and it's meaningless without context.

[Winchester White]

It's a sad state of affairs when the police know exactly who they are, that they shouldn't be here and haven't the resources to do anything about it.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

12 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

It's a sad state of affairs when the police know exactly who they are, that they shouldn't be here and haven't the resources to do anything about it.

It's not just about policing. It's about court, legal representation, over-protective human rights legislation and a slow grind to get the criminals out. 

The home office needs a bloody great big re-set.

[Johnny1990]

2 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

I don’t think anyone’s denying there’s a problem. It’s clear from those stats re prison population.

The problem lies when folk continually tar all Albanians with the same brush. Or start calling for policies that will target genuine refugees. Even with those prison stats, it’s clearly still a minority of Albanians. 
 

Good to hear the police are using the nationality though and not tiptoeing around the issue.

 Great post mate, and a helpful insight.

Exactly. It’s like when people tar gypsies with the same brush. Clearly we know it’s a small minority that are the problem. I’m sure you wouldn’t think twice if they knocked on your front door offering their services. Coz you’re non judgmental like that. 

[Winchester White]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

It's not just about policing. It's about court, legal representation, over-protective human rights legislation and a slow grind to get the criminals out. 

The home office needs a bloody great big re-set.

I can agree with some of that for sure, the police and especially the courts are massively understaffed.

As for human rights, we are (or were) doing just what every other decent country on the planet is doing.

Slow grind? Yes because the home office is a shitshow. Why? Braverman blames the volume of folk on boats, yet we have faced and processed much bigger volumes in the recent past.

[London Wanderer]

20 minutes ago, Johnny1990 said:

Exactly. It’s like when people tar gypsies with the same brush. Clearly we know it’s a small minority that are the problem. I’m sure you wouldn’t think twice if they knocked on your front door offering their services. Coz you’re non judgmental like that. 

Aww. Have you and your Stone Island mates been scrapping with some Albanians? Why don’t you just go walking into battle and pop the dinghies yourself if it means that much to you.

 I’m not non-judgmental pal, we all make judgements, sometimes wrongly sometimes right. It’s natural. But if it’s constantly negative and you’re stereotyping a whole nationality of people, then it’s time to give your head a wobble.

[Johnny1990]

22 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Aww. Have you and your Stone Island mates been scrapping with some Albanians? Why don’t you just go walking into battle and pop the dinghies yourself if it means that much to you.

 I’m not non-judgmental pal, we all make judgements, sometimes wrongly sometimes right. It’s natural. But if it’s constantly negative and you’re stereotyping a whole nationality of people, then it’s time to give your head a wobble.

So go on then. A gang of gypsies knock on your front door and offer to flag your driveway that you’ve coincidentally been meaning to have done and they offer you the cheapest quote do you stereotype or give them the job?

 

and for the record my friend lives in a shared accommodation with an Albanian girl - prostitute.
my mother had a cannabis farm in the house at the back of her. 2 Albanians were renting it and did one once they had their grow. . Saturday night outside level nightclub  an altercation was had and a Bolton lad was bottled by a known Albanian. A small minority you say are the problem?

[Spider]

2 minutes ago, Johnny1990 said:

So go on then. A gang of gypsies knock on your front door and offer to flag your driveway that you’ve coincidentally been meaning to have done and they offer you the cheapest quote do you stereotype or give them the job?

 

and for the record my friend lives in a shared accommodation with an Albanian girl - prostitute.
my mother had a cannabis farm in the house at the back of her. 2 Albanians were renting it and did one once they had their grow. . Saturday night outside level nightclub  an altercation was had and a Bolton lad was bottled by a known Albanian. A small minority you say are the problem?

I can honestly say I’ve never been bottled outside Level 

[Cheese]

10 minutes ago, Johnny1990 said:

So go on then. A gang of gypsies knock on your front door and offer to flag your driveway that you’ve coincidentally been meaning to have done and they offer you the cheapest quote do you stereotype or give them the job?

 

and for the record my friend lives in a shared accommodation with an Albanian girl - prostitute.
my mother had a cannabis farm in the house at the back of her. 2 Albanians were renting it and did one once they had their grow. . Saturday night outside level nightclub  an altercation was had and a Bolton lad was bottled by a known Albanian. A small minority you say are the problem?

It's a well-known fact that English lads don't fight outside nightclubs or deal drugs. 😁

[Johnny1990]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

It's a well-known fact that English lads don't fight outside nightclubs or deal drugs. 😁

I think you’re missing the point and I actually think you know you are. I’ll also add to the list direct Albanian involvement in an illegal tobacco factory in Bolton that I know off. Salt of the Earth folk these Albanians but I’m not allowed to make judgement. 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Johnny1990 said:

I think you’re missing the point and I actually think you know you are. I’ll also add to the list direct Albanian involvement in an illegal tobacco factory in Bolton that I know off. Salt of the Earth folk these Albanians but I’m not allowed to make judgement. 

Have you phoned the police about the illegal tobacco factory? And who's stopping you from making a judgment?

Edited March 12, 2023 by Cheese

[London Wanderer]

8 minutes ago, Johnny1990 said:

So go on then. A gang of gypsies knock on your front door and offer to flag your driveway that you’ve coincidentally been meaning to have done and they offer you the cheapest quote do you stereotype or give them the job?

and for the record my friend lives in a shared accommodation with an Albanian girl - prostitute.
my mother had a cannabis farm in the house at the back of her. 2 Albanians were renting it and did one once they had their grow. . Saturday night outside level nightclub  an altercation was had and a Bolton lad was bottled by a known Albanian. A small minority you say are the problem?

What a strange question - even more bonkers after I've just acknowledged we all judge others, it's normal. For the record I'd say no to anyone offering me anything at the front door. 

Congratulations on your detailed list of run ins with Albanians. So the answer to my question about you and your Stone Island mates was a yes then. I can give you an even longer list back of perfectly sound Albanians that I've met. Many who've had their claims accepted in recent years have been working as HGV drivers, filling the shortfall since we left the EU. 

If you read my posts you'll see I've said that there's clearly a high rate crime amongst Albanians. You've taken that to mean it's all of them. The majority will of course be decent people, most level headed folk will know that's the truth. 

[Johnny1990]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Have you phoned the police about the illegal tobacco factory? And who's stopping you from making a judgment?

Oh yes hello police can you come and question my friend about the whereabouts of an illegal tobacco factory. And London wanderer said we shouldn’t judge a nation on a few bad apples

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Johnny1990 said:

Oh yes hello police can you come and question my friend about the whereabouts of an illegal tobacco factory. And London wanderer said we shouldn’t judge a nation on a few bad apples

Well it's no wonder they're getting away with it then if even the people who know about it aren't reporting it.

And that's just London Wanderer's opinion. Do you live your life by whatever he says or something?

[Johnny1990]

5 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

What a strange question - even more bonkers after I've just acknowledged we all judge others, it's normal. For the record I'd say no to anyone offering me anything at the front door. 

Congratulations on your detailed list of run ins with Albanians. So the answer to my question about you and your Stone Island mates was a yes then. I can give you an even longer list back of perfectly sound Albanians that I've met. Many who've had their claims accepted in recent years have been working as HGV drivers, filling the shortfall since we left the EU. 

If you read my posts you'll see I've said that there's clearly a high rate crime amongst Albanians. You've taken that to mean it's all of them. The majority will of course be decent people, most level headed folk will know that's the truth. 

You said we shouldn’t tar all Albanians with the same brush but as I’ve pointed out it’s very hard not to when  they are involved in lots of crime. For every good Albanian there’s 5 bad ones in my book. I really wish I was as good as you. I really do. 

[London Wanderer]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Have you phoned the police about the illegal tobacco factory? And who's stopping you from making a judgment?

Always makes me laugh when people say they're not allowed a voice - whilst typing and posting a comment. ffs.   

Tbf to @kent_white this thread only shows how right he was with his post earlier. Bolton is clearly seeing some of the issues around Albanian crime and folk are seeing examples of this. It's just a shame that in 21st century Britain people are still incapable of differentiating. 

[Johnny1990]

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Well it's no wonder they're getting away with it then if even the people who know about it aren't reporting it.

And that's just London Wanderer's opinion. Do you live your life by whatever he says or something?

My friend is a drug user so that’s the world he lives in unfortunately. I ain’t gonna ring the police on him. 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Johnny1990 said:

My friend is a drug user so that’s the world he lives in unfortunately. I ain’t gonna ring the police on him. 

Well it's no wonder the Albanian's who run the Tobacco Factory are getting away with it then. 🤷‍♂️ How do you expect the police to shut it down if everyone turns a blind eye?

[Johnny1990]

6 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Always makes me laugh when people say they're not allowed a voice - whilst typing and posting a comment. ffs.   

Tbf to @kent_white this thread only shows how right he was with his post earlier. Bolton is clearly seeing some of the issues around Albanian crime and folk are seeing examples of this. It's just a shame that in 21st century Britain people are still incapable of differentiating. 

You stated “The problem lies when folk continually tar all Albanians with the same brush” well it’s hard not to when they’re   clearly involved in a lot of crime ffs talk about thick