Site Supporter desperado Posted October 30, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2022 18 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said: similar with Morley / Dempsey It’s a good post with some very valid points. But in the following 4 league games after Wycombe when Morley and Dempsey were paired together we only won one - so if he had carried on with this and we’d have kept on not winning games, he would have been called stubborn and clueless! As I mentioned earlier the most successfull 3 so far this season has been MJ/Tomo/Lee - he changed it (I can see why after the hellish Gloucestershire week) The only real conclusion you can reach as a fan is that no matter which 3 he picks you’ll never get everyone agreeing. And while we are are not winning you’ll always get folk on social media saying he should have done it this or that way with a different set of players than he selected! I’d go even further and say even when we win our next game, you’ll have those who say it should stay the same and those who’ll say he should change to suit the opposition! Until we get on a good run again, I understand that there will be lots of debate and conjecture about who should/shouldn’t be playing. And that’s fine. But I also think there needs to be an understanding that IE and his coaching team will be best placed to get these decisions right (or at least make informed decisions) based on a number of factors, some of which are apparent to us, lots of which behind the scenes isn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted October 30, 2022 Moderators Share Posted October 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Cheese said: We're exactly where we should be in terms of budget. "Expectation" is an unmanagable factor. I think it's possible to manage expectations For example, the club want to be a sustainable championship club They probably want to win every game and be premier and European champions They know it's not going to happen, so they've set what they see as reasonable expectations/ambition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted October 30, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Zico said: I think it's possible to manage expectations For example, the club want to be a sustainable championship club They probably want to win every game and be premier and European champions They know it's not going to happen, so they've set what they see as reasonable expectations/ambition Every club in our division wants that. That's why they try to win every game. It's not rocket science. I don't understand what you're arguing about? It doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted October 30, 2022 Moderators Share Posted October 30, 2022 22 minutes ago, Cheese said: Every club in our division wants that. That's why they try to win every game. It's not rocket science. I don't understand what you're arguing about? It doesn't matter. I'm discussing the difference between trying to win and trying not to lose Some teams want to push on, some are happy to consolidate I disagree that it's Accrington's (or Morecambe, Fleetwood, FGR etc's) ambition to get promoted asap, which was the original point you made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Cheese said: We're exactly where we should be in terms of budget. "Expectation" is an unmanagable factor. I'm not sure expectation is an unmanageable factor given the strong correlation between wage budgets and league position. You even acknowledge it yourself in the first sentence of your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted October 30, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Zico said: I'm discussing the difference between trying to win and trying not to lose Some teams want to push on, some are happy to consolidate I disagree that it's Accrington's (or Morecambe, Fleetwood, FGR etc's) ambition to get promoted asap, which was the original point you made Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted October 30, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: I'm not sure expectation is an unmanageable factor given the strong correlation between wage budgets and league position. You even acknowledge it yourself in the first sentence of your post. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter superjohnmcginlay Posted October 30, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2022 10 hours ago, Spider said: Anyone reading this and unaware of the league table would assume we were bottom and without a win. How have we managed to get the points we have? Anyway, went in the fanzone for the first time yesterday and it is absolutely excellent. Massive 👍 to the club for that, it’s a fantastic addition to Matchday. I enjoyed it too 🍻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, desperado said: It’s a good post with some very valid points. But in the following 4 league games after Wycombe when Morley and Dempsey were paired together we only won one - so if he had carried on with this and we’d have kept on not winning games, he would have been called stubborn and clueless! Of those 4 one was Port Vale where played with 10 men for an hour after Santos was sent off One we won Santos was suspended One was defeat at Plymouth where the performance was fine but a defensive error from Santos The other was defeat by Sheff Weds where it was very even till a defensive error by Santos You could easily draw the conclusion the onus for those results lies with someone not in the midfield ! To be clear I think Santos has potential to play at a higher level but recent form and errors this season show his current limitations. Watch the third goal from Saturday and explain what he is doing ! I did not set out to make this an attempt to slag of Santos it is just in the specific games referenced he has not covered himself in glory. Edited October 30, 2022 by Ani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter desperado Posted October 31, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ani said: Of those 4 one was Port Vale where played with 10 men for an hour after Santos was sent off One we won Santos was suspended One was defeat at Plymouth where the performance was fine but a defensive error from Santos The other was defeat by Sheff Weds where it was very even till a defensive error by Santos You could easily draw the conclusion the onus for those results lies with someone not in the midfield ! To be clear I think Santos has potential to play at a higher level but recent form and errors this season show his current limitations. Watch the third goal from Saturday and explain what he is doing ! I did not set out to make this an attempt to slag of Santos it is just in the specific games referenced he has not covered himself in glory. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. And in the same way you’re not seeking out Santos as the scapegoat, I wasn’t with Morley/Dempsey. I actually like them both and won’t be disappointed to see one/both of them back in the mix. There’s just a multitude of variances, possibilities, angles and perspectives you can take from our games at the moment to attempt to make/disprove a point. This season is proving particularly frustrating because a theory, a performance, a sub or a change in one game can be criticised for not working the game after! I think we’re all in agreement that a level of consistency in selection, but more importantly performance and results is what we are striving for. Edited October 31, 2022 by desperado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 We are in league one, we have league one players it’s no surprise they’ll make mistakes and miss more chances than championship class players. Thats where we are, 18 months ago we had league 2 quality players and where we currently are is progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perth_white Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 18 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: We are in league one, we have league one players it’s no surprise they’ll make mistakes and miss more chances than championship class players. Thats where we are, 18 months ago we had league 2 quality players and where we currently are is progress. True. Also I would guess our league position more or less matches our budget in relation to the other clubs in this division. Some of these clubs were in the Championship whilst we were in league 2, giving them another advantage. I'd be interested to know how many teams promoted from League 2 get promoted again within a couple of seasons, can't be many. We expect more because of the size and history of the club but in reality we are recently promoted from L2 and maybe we won't get out of here in 2 seasons, we didn't last time we were in this position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted October 31, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted October 31, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyrotten Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Nobody is suggesting we haven't progressed compared to this time last year. We were giving game time to Gordon, Doyle, Amaechi, Dixon, Delfouneso etc, and IE rightly upgraded the squad in January. Surely the debate is about our form in the last month, since we deservedly beat Peterboro and Lincoln without conceding. It doesn't mean it won't all change again in November, but comparing to when we had a very different squad doesn't really address how we get back to winning ways with this team. We could lose every game in November 5-0 and we'd still be better off than the same time last season, but to just repeat that would be kind of missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: We are in league one, we have league one players it’s no surprise they’ll make mistakes and miss more chances than championship class players. Thats where we are, 18 months ago we had league 2 quality players and where we currently are is progress. I keep saying it but nobody is playing any better than we are. Its division 3 football. Sheff Weds fans want their manager out and they're third. Pompey fans not happy either. Ipswich defending on Saturday was a circus. Plymouth are hardly Man City. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol_BWFC Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Cheese said: I never understand the colouring on these. Red makes it seem negative, but fewer games lost and fewer goals against should be shiny green (even if downward arrows). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big E Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: We are in league one, we have league one players it’s no surprise they’ll make mistakes and miss more chances than championship class players. Thats where we are, 18 months ago we had league 2 quality players and where we currently are is progress. We do and if folk accept we ain’t going up that’s fine. We can’t be claiming to be good enough to get promoted when in reality we are just a team of league one players, a good scouse kid and a diamond who sits on the bench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nantwichwhite Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 We have a few players out of form and some are being played out of position or moved around the midfield or front line. Trafford is showing signs of inexperience by not dominating his 6 yard box but he is a quick learner and will work through it. The young left back is looking a bit tired and leggy and maybe due a rest, as young players sometimes have to do, his positioning was poor on Saturday and put Gethin under some pressure, Gethin who is normally Mr Reliable has shown a dip in form. Sheehan is creative but lightweight, could be a better number 10 than out and out midfielder. The benefits of squad rotation and resting players will only be apparent in the latter part of the season, it would be interesting to know the squad depth of the other top teams. We were roughed up without protection from the ref, a similar watch to Wigan last season. I suppose the only thing we can question is that the back three is keeping our most creative player on the bench or when played he is not in his most dangerous position. Also MJ will be sorely missed in the next couple of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyrotten Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, gonzo said: I keep saying it but nobody is playing any better than we are. Its division 3 football. Sheff Weds fans want their manager out and they're third. Pompey fans not happy either. Ipswich defending on Saturday was a circus. Plymouth are hardly Man City. It is what it is. I know what you're saying in terms of the standard being poor. If we watch a live L1 game on TV its not exactly edge of the seat stuff, and nobody looks better than us upto the penalty box. But clearly Plymouth are playing significantly better than us. Last 12 games, won 10, drawn 2, scored in every game, 27 goals. We've won 6, drawn 2, lost 4, scored 14. They have 5 players that have scored either 5 or 6 goals league goals. Our top scorer has 3 and that includes 2 pens, nobody else has more than 2. As you say, they are no Man City, but they are maximising what they have, as Ipswich are generally. Loads of credit to Schumacher at Plymouth, he's clearly getting the most out of his squad, and IE is striving to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianofcleveleys Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: We are in league one, we have league one players it’s no surprise they’ll make mistakes and miss more chances than championship class players. Thats where we are, 18 months ago we had league 2 quality players and where we currently are is progress. Fair point, apart from top 2 and Sheff W, the rest, including us are a bit 'win, lose, draw' and striving for that consistency formula that we are. One or two with better resources than us, particularly Sheff W with their forward trio of Smith, Wilks, Gregory and of course with Bannan in behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Be interesting to see any table of changes to the team so far this season. We’ll be right up there and wouldn’t surprise me if the teams at the top end or low to bottom consistency starts with team selection. Until this last week which has been an absolute mind fuck we had the best defensive record and one of the worst goal scoring. our back 5 has been very settled and our attacking players chopped and changed. Coincidence?… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyRiddle Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, nantwichwhite said: Also MJ will be sorely missed in the next couple of games. Will he? Pray tell!! For me, he has been one of the poorest players in the last month, totally limited, particularly in home games. Since the Lincoln game, when he has been on the pitch we have conceded 6 and score zero! With him off the pitch we have scored 6 conceded 1, so please someone tell me how he want straight back in the team on Saturday. If I was Morely, Aimson, John or Sadlier I would defo get the feeling Evatt has his favourites regardless of their performance and his 'work hard and you'll get your chance' soundbites. Just words he thinks he needs to say, he loses credibility week on week. Edited October 31, 2022 by JimmyRiddle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, JimmyRiddle said: Will he? Pray tell!! For me, he has been one of the poorest players in the last month, totally limited, particularly in home games. Since the Lincoln game, when he has been on the pitch we have conceded 6 and score zero! With him off the pitch we have scored 6 conceded 1, so please someone tell me how he want straight back in the team on Saturday. If I was Morely, Aimson, John or Sadlier I would defo get the feeling Evatt has his favourites regardless of their performance and his 'work hard and you'll get your chance' soundbites. Just words he thinks he needs to say, he loses credibility week on week. Course he will be missed he’s been our best player august & September perhaps overplayed… his form has dipped in October and it’s no coincidence our form has also dipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted October 31, 2022 Moderators Share Posted October 31, 2022 14 minutes ago, JimmyRiddle said: he loses credibility week on week. theres some posters on here been whinging and whining so long they havent any credibility left to lose just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radcliffe white Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, gonzo said: I keep saying it but nobody is playing any better than we are. Its division 3 football. Sheff Weds fans want their manager out and they're third. Pompey fans not happy either. Ipswich defending on Saturday was a circus. Plymouth are hardly Man City. It is what it is. I’m sure others managed a shot on target at Cheltenham i kind of see your point but the teams you mention have a lot more intensity about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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