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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

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1 hour ago, Black Sheep said:

He is a young manager, and I do agree that he may well become a decent / top manager. However for me it's about getting out of League 1 asap (I'm also sure that you said 'we don’t want to be in this division though, let’s hope it’s good enough to take us up').

I understand that others are more patient (to be honest I wish that I was). I appreciate that we are 6th which is great and there is some progress I admit, but for me this last 6 games against teams that are mostly near the bottom has highlighted that he still has a lot to learn & to me has highlighted his naivety - in regards to team selection, tactics, nous etc.

It's probably just me being impatient & it is just my personal opinion and I may well be wrong.  

We have to be patient, we are no where near top spenders in this league, nor are we the biggest club in this division, we are rebuilding a club that was completely on its arse with no squad, no manager or back room team, we’ve constantly upgraded the squad at every transfer window, Evatt has been here less than 3 years, that’s no time at all to build the club up from scratch and what’s been achieved in this tenure is little short of incredible. 

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1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

It's a fair point Mounts, just bloody annoying some of these weird selections, and some poor performances.

That's football. 11 humans against 11 humans 🤷‍♂️ In hindsight, we can all say it was the wrong selection when we lose, and a brilliant selection when we win. Evatt doesn't have a PlayStation controller.

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Not after an argument, but surely some of you can see that he was wrong selecting Williams, Lee & Sheehan in midfield against an Oxford side that Evatt post match said are one of the hardest running teams in the league.

I've absolutely no idea behind his reasoning & thought process in making that decision.

 

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21 minutes ago, Cheese said:

 

I have no idea about what you're talking about now. All I said was every team that plays a football match wants to win that football match. You seem to think otherwise. It doesn't matter.

I think it'd be more accurate to say every time wants to avoid relegation and goes out every game not wanting to lose 

Good handful are happy just to stay in this league 

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We've got a team of misfits and players who have fallen from grace. Our keeper is one that was playing Non-League till not long ago and we've had to Borrow one.. 

All our players have been gotten on the cheap as they were not performing, despite potential. It's going to take time and despite that, it's a bad run.. that's all it is.. a bad run.. We've scored 6 goals in 3 games.. I mean, yeah granted we have let 6 in too.. 

My concern is that if we aren't successful this season, we need to really invest in a keeper, we need to be using our own players and developing a long term squad over season long loans.. We've had some great players, but also at the same time, our own squad gets put out. 

If we didn't have the slump last year and injuries, we wouldn't have as many midfielders.. Hence why Sadlier, Dempsey and Morley are not getting the full look in, I know he wanted Dempsey for a while, but the other 2 do feel like impulse buys, Morley is going to develop into a cracking player, but he's only 22.

That's the other thing we have a VERY young squad with most being in their earlier 20s

Morley 22, Trafford 20, Jones 27, Santos 27, Johnston 24, Dapo 25, Dion Charles 27, MJ 26, Thommason 21, Saddlier 28, Dempsey 28,  Baka 26

with Kachunga, JDB and Lee being the elder statesmen at 30, 30 and 34.. 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Zico said:

I think it'd be more accurate to say every time wants to avoid relegation and goes out every game not wanting to lose 

Good handful are happy just to stay in this league 

I must be naive then. I thought every team wanted to win every game. I understand setting out to not concede, but I would have thought every team would prefer to win. This is a mindset I've not been aware of before.

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13 minutes ago, Black Sheep said:

Not after an argument, but surely some of you can see that he was wrong selecting Williams, Lee & Sheehan in midfield against an Oxford side that Evatt post match said are one of the hardest running teams in the league.

I've absolutely no idea behind his reasoning & thought process in making that decision.

 

Think plenty would agree with midfield points, I said this as we got to game and heard the team. 
But how that translates into your earlier rant is a leap.

Your later posts are more logical and harder to argue with but 'shit choice in midfield' is not the same as 'personality transplant' 

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6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I must be naive then. I thought every team wanted to win every game. I understand setting out to not concede, but I would have thought every team would prefer to win. This is a mindset I've not been aware of before.

You're thinking of snooker

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5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I must be naive then. I thought every team wanted to win every game. I understand setting out to not concede, but I would have thought every team would prefer to win. This is a mindset I've not been aware of before.

Are you really not familiar with the idea of being happy with a point ? 
Of course they would prefer 3 but plenty of teams priority is 'do not get beat' rather than try and win. 

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2 minutes ago, Ani said:

Are you really not familiar with the idea of being happy with a point ? 
Of course they would prefer 3 but plenty of teams priority is 'do not get beat' rather than try and win. 

And half the PL are happy to survive 

They don't take cups seriously

Play 2nd string teams and kids  

Etc

Can't believe he's never noticed this

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6 minutes ago, Ani said:

Are you really not familiar with the idea of being happy with a point ? 
Of course they would prefer 3 but plenty of teams priority is 'do not get beat' rather than try and win. 

Of course. I'm just confused by the concept that some teams don't want to get promoted or finish as high as they possibly can.

Edited by Cheese
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1 minute ago, Zico said:

And half the PL are happy to survive 

They don't take cups seriously

Play 2nd string teams and kids  

Etc

Can't believe he's never noticed this

Are there teams in the Premier League that would rather draw than win? 

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Not confident when I saw the line-up , thinking where do the goals come from?
Although not a critic of Katchunga , he doesn’t hit the target very often & after the euphoria of the late win the previous game expected to see Bodvarson in the starting lineup along with Dapo .Having said that nothing worked on the pitch & the opposition were winning most second balls.

Carl Robinson had certainly done is homework targeting Jones & Bradley with lots of lofted high balls as Burton had done (but not as effectively )

The direct battling approach certainly rattled us , & they grew in confidence assisted by another incompetent referee.

Things bucked up a bit with the subs & Charles’s goal gave us a chance to get something out of the game.

But our Achilles heal of setpiece incompetence did for us .

Someone needs to drill some setpiece discipline into our players .

To get promoted from any league requires solid defending & some goals from corners & freekicks. We lack both & not just based on yesterday it’s not a new issue other teams seem to rely on it totally .

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To put it plainly - I said that "there are 23 other teams in League 1 who want to get promoted". Some clubs have a target of avoiding relegation, some have a target to get in the play offs. ALL OF THEM want to WIN EVERY MATCH, regardless of that target. I'm astounded that this is being challenged.

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3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Are there teams in the Premier League that would rather draw than win? 

No 

Not if they could choose 

But you know teams go to places like city intent on trying to not to concede that many, if any, and show zero attacking intent IE "they play for a draw"

Managers look at games they expect to win and lose, particularly those trying to survive, they have targets and are realistic in what they hope to achieve 

Amazed you've never heard about this in all your time watching football 

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4 minutes ago, Ani said:

Think plenty would agree with midfield points, I said this as we got to game and heard the team. 
But how that translates into your earlier rant is a leap.

Your later posts are more logical and harder to argue with but 'shit choice in midfield' is not the same as 'personality transplant' 

Personality transplant was probably the wrong phrase to use, perhaps a change of mindset would have been better, however IMO he does need to change. To improve as a manager he needs to stop being so stubborn & also thinking that he's the Guardiola of League 1, I admire his self belief but he has an arrogance about him that I don't like, he rarely admits that he's done anything wrong and dismisses most of the criticism against him. It's almost like its his way or no way and he won't listen to anyone who disagrees with him.

Yes he's young & he's learning, but to keep repeating the same 'stubborn' mistakes week after week doesn't strike me like a person who wants to learn & develop more like a person who believes that he already good & knows what he's doing.

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Just now, Zico said:

No 

Not if they could choose 

But you know teams go to places like city intent on trying to not to concede that many, if any, and show zero attacking intent IE "they play for a draw"

Managers look at games they expect to win and lose, particularly those trying to survive, they have targets and are realistic in what they hope to achieve 

Amazed you've never heard about this in all your time watching football 

You haven't followed the discussion. Never mind.

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6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You haven't followed the discussion. Never mind.

No I have 

Loud and clear 

If you asked every team what result they'd like, they'd say a win. 

But not every team sets themselves out to get a win in every game 

Some teams play to win, some teams play not to lose 

The next week that may change depending on opposition and if home or away 

It's too simplistic just to say every team wants to win the league / get promoted and want to win every game  

That's just what they would like to happen, not what they plan on happening 

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3 minutes ago, Zico said:

No I have 

Loud and clear 

If you asked every team what result they'd like, they'd say a win. 

But not every team sets themselves out to get a win in every game 

Some teams play to win, some teams play not to lose 

The next week that may change depending on opposition and if home or away 

It's too simplistic just to say every team wants to win the league / get promoted and want to win every game  

That's just what they would like to happen, not what they plan on happening 

Do you agree that all 24 clubs in League 1 would like to get promoted to the Championship?

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35 minutes ago, Black Sheep said:

Personality transplant was probably the wrong phrase to use, perhaps a change of mindset would have been better, however IMO he does need to change. To improve as a manager he needs to stop being so stubborn & also thinking that he's the Guardiola of League 1, I admire his self belief but he has an arrogance about him that I don't like, he rarely admits that he's done anything wrong and dismisses most of the criticism against him. It's almost like its his way or no way and he won't listen to anyone who disagrees with him.

Yes he's young & he's learning, but to keep repeating the same 'stubborn' mistakes week after week doesn't strike me like a person who wants to learn & develop more like a person who believes that he already good & knows what he's doing.

So you just don’t like him.  Thought so and as I suspected earlier. Think that’s clouding your judgement somewhat. 

Edited by Mounts Kipper
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1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We have to be patient, we are no where near top spenders in this league, nor are we the biggest club in this division, we are rebuilding a club that was completely on its arse with no squad, no manager or back room team, we’ve constantly upgraded the squad at every transfer window, Evatt has been here less than 3 years, that’s no time at all to build the club up from scratch and what’s been achieved in this tenure is little short of incredible. 

Not been on here for a long while (got a bit too engrossed with Twitter) so well out of touch, but I can see both your points of view on this one. Evatt's done really well, with good backing, to get the team back on an upward curve, establish a way of playing that's largely been successful and largely entertained us. He's also, again with that backing, rebuilt playing infrastructure that had been decimated. 

We are at least where I expected / hoped we might be in the table at this stage, again pretty creditable. My only issue is that, despite more additions and turnover to the squad in Summer, we still look what we were last season and I'm not seeing that bit evolution that's going to be necessary to take us from being 8th or 9th best to contenders. We're doing all the same good things but all the same bad things, with a lot of very similar players who have the same qualities and same sort of deficiencies. 

That evolution is going to have to be based on Evatt having a reflective moment and accepting that the best two or three teams in this league can, without doubt, football it around as well as any but also know how to win against whoever rolls up, whether that involves being more direct, outmuscling or out shithousing them. 

If we are to make any further progress under Evatt, and I do hope we do and he enjoys the credit for it, we're going to have to move on from still looking like a latter day Wenger Arsenal, easy on the eye, score lovely goals now and then but a soft touch easily knocked off course and into their shells    

    

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