dingdangdo

Sure Evra should be able to go about his job without having to worry about racial abuse - the point here is what should happen when he encounters it? You make a good point about his union - an excellent point actually. But running to the boss over a colleague to colleague or player to player - never!

Excellent post - very funny. Maybe you're right - the cheap san miguel from the offy may have got to mi ead

. Madrid has a problem with pickpockets its true. And the bar owners in plaza mayor are buggars for fleecing tourists -actually it's fairly widespread in Spain - one price for locals another for strangers - I think that's called lassiez faire capitalism. Bit like the taxi driver taking a stranger round a 20 mile trip to get the punter 50 yards to their destination. I've fallen for that one in the UK more than once in my lifetime

No fair point I assumed they were right wingers when they started singing fuck the pope songs - but there's many a leftie who hates the pope so I'm wrong to assume

Who said anything about ignoring the abuse? I didn't. I said there are many ways to deal with racist abuse besides running to the authorities. And protection from hate speech is not an issue of liberty. Since when has the freedom not to be offended become an issue for civil liberty? That's a confused reading of liberty if you ask me.

I'm not here as a wind up - I do enjoy a good argument though.

Yes there was plenty of good natured banter but come on - you have to admit here was some pretty outrageous stuff going on as well. The square looked like a bomb site when we left. I don't think the bar owners would welcome us back with open arms. I got set on by a group of pissed up right wing thugs wearing Bolton colours for daring to stop them attacking a young Spanish student whose only crime was to observe the strange goings on. I know he tendency is to blame the cops but lets not delude ourselves that we were all little angels that day.

Conspiracy theory nonsense if you ask me

Bolty - I'm wih you here - the disparity is most revealing and reflects the elites cultural priorities. Reminds me of that story of US forces writing homophobic graffiti on a smart bomb destined for Iraq. They got seriously reprimanded for their lack of cultural awareness....so it's I'm to blow up dark skinned people in faraway lands but don't upset the cultural elite's PC code of conduct. Why do you think the disparity exists?

The fact that John Barnes and many others like him chose to fight racism with their skill did indeed have a positive effect on challenging racism on the terraces. You undermine their heroic contribution to claim otherwise. And the legislation of words and thought (which are qualitatively different than actions) has no limits. Be careful what you wish for my friend.

I'll accept that the law has a role to play in tackling racism - but let's not confuse laws for words and deeds. There's a massive difference. Laws that focus on words are a waste of time. It's the deeds that matter. So if you want to discuss racist imigration laws then fine - but laws on the effects of racism - language - don't tackle racism at all - that's my point. We don't need laws to tell us what to think or what to say - you can't legislate thought - you can legislate against discrimination. The example of Eto is a good one - he did indeed suffer racist abuse - but he should have dealt with it like the great black footballing pioneers of the past - by shutting them up with his performance on the pitch. To say the anti racist industry tackled racism in football stadia is to decry the fantastic success of the likes of John Barnes, Luther Blisset and good old Jay Jay in dealing with the problem. Footballers are encouraged to be victims by the anti racist industry - that's a problem in and of itself.

Not strictly true http://www.uefa.com/uefa/socialresponsibility/antiracism/news/newsid=383840.html#spains+battle+against+racism

Can you really compare your workplace with a competitive highly charged football match? The main objective on the pitch is to compete and win - by fair means or fowl. Normal rules of engagement cant easily be applied. And avoid racial awareness classes at all costs. Bunk off and read Mill, Voltaire or Marx. The idea that you run and tell the boss is bad. The idea that a racial awareness class will make you more racially aware is a non starter. Top down social engineering in yet another form.

Why would the pitch suddenly become a bloodbath? Did we have bloodbaths prior to the plethora of anti racist codes of conduct when racism was a real social problem? I agree that the taking of a red card for retaliation seems unfair - but it's a far more effective weapon than running to the authorities. And I also agree that footballers are forced to be role models - but they shouldn't be. The reason footballers are forced to be role models is because the cultural elite thinks us ordinary folk are too thick to socialise our kids according to their moral standards. Forcing footballers to behave like pc goody two shoes is just another form of top down social engineering and should be rejected.

bolty - left and right means jack shit these days - let's just debate the issues as we see them - if we agree good - if not - let's argue anyways!

Power to the people!

No mate - marxist if you must know

"what would I have done with Suarez" If I was Evra - I would have either: Verbally abused him back Waited till the next 50/50 moment, nailed him and taken a justifiable red card Waited till after the game and have it out then If I was Evra's team mate I would have backed Evra and laid in to Suarez, possibly taking a red card for my troubles If I was on the discplinary panel I would have walked out as it was none of my god damn business And footballers are not role models and should not be elevated to that status. They should be admired for their footballing skill and not expected to be things they clearly are not. Keep politics out of the beautiful game

If I faced discrimination from a work colleague I'd deal with the colleague. That's a private matter between us. Evra could have done many things if indeed he was being racially abused - just don't go snitching to the teacher like a big wuss. I begruge him because he's set a very dangerous precedent - he's crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed.

Do you really believe that the likes of Drogba, Welbeck, Evra, etc etc succeeded because of the FAs kick it out campaign? I think you do black players a serious injustice by making that claim.

Good point - and I know racism in Spain is more prevalent than here - but you can't say that the specific problems in Spain are caused by a lack of authoritarian intervention. The problem in Spain is more deeply rooted in Spanish culture and society. And yes I believe the authorities should not be involved in dealing with hate speech. Their first instinct is to ban words and make private speech subject to criminal law...that's not anti racism - that's just censorship

Don't know of any good pubs - but watch your language - the new (absolutely ridiculous) bill passed by the scottish parliament means you can get up to 5 years for offensive words or songs at a football match.

Kick it out has done jack shit in tackling racism. Only the self appointed pioneers of the anti racist establishment would tell you different. The fact that racism in football is virtually non existent nowadays has everything to do with the integration of black people into everyday society and the success of black players.

A football pitch is absolutely a private place and should be defended as such. Racists should be outed - I agree - but the outing is the job of you and me - we should not hand off our responsibility to any external body

Have you thought this through? Where will it all end? The precedent is now set - every altercation between players will now be subject to scrutiny with players forced to stand in front of a panel of bureaucrats justifying their private speech. Wanna live in a world where private speech is subject to state scrutiny? Not for me thanks