Anyone had a read of this? It is an epic (Not in the Diddles sense) story.

 

Some of the conditions leading upto WW2 are almost unbelievable, they would make a fiction book sound daft.

 

One thing for sure is Chamberlain's spineless pandering to Hitler with the Anschluss and occupation of Sudetenland was almost as heinous as the Feuhrer pre-1939 actions.

 

Anyway, i'm debating whether to read into Bolshevism or head West to Ireland's struggles, any recommended reads?

I read it years ago and it clearly suggests there's culpability on our part.

By Willam L Shirer. A very good read and a lesson in history. They make todays spin doctors look like amateurs. Must have been some gullible folk in Germany them days but the conditions were right after the Weimar republic.

Shirer's book is a must have, one of the few books that straddle both 'academic' and 'casual' reading.

If you enjoyed that I'd recommend:

 

Howard Zinn - A People's History of the United States.

 

A pretty definitive history of 'European' America.

 

C. Thomas X Hammes - The Sling and the Stone.

 

Ex-US military man's viewpoint of 21st Century warfare, surprisingly frank in his criticisms of his former 'bosses'.

Edited February 22, 201214 yr by Youri McAnespie

I read it years ago and it clearly suggests there's culpability on our part.

 

It's made clear from the testimony that Britain wen't out of her way to facilitate the dissolution of Czechoslovakia. And all the while, the Prime Minister was lapping up the plaudits for his foreign policy and war aversion. I wonder how much of the population shared Churchill's views at the time.

 

By Willam L Shirer. A very good read and a lesson in history. They make todays spin doctors look like amateurs. Must have been some gullible folk in Germany them days but the conditions were right after the Weimar republic.

 

That's what I mean, megalomania or not, Hitler executed his rise to perfection and played every hand to a tee. Extremely fortunate to have the wimpish French & British post-Versailles really to help him along. I'm still gobsmacked a vagrant school dropout acheived what Hitler did though.

That's what I mean, megalomania or not, Hitler executed his rise to perfection and played every hand to a tee. Extremely fortunate to have the wimpish French & British post-Versailles really to help him along. I'm still gobsmacked a vagrant school dropout acheived what Hitler did though.

 

Just goes to show that you can fool most of the people for a fair bit of time if you have the charisma and the correct prevailing conditions.

 

I am sure when they got a few years into the path to destruction, many would have wanted out but it would have been too late. The ball had picked up too much momentum and they had pissed away their right to free speech by allowing the mad fcuker unfettered control. One word out of place and you're dead.

Just goes to show that you can fool most of the people for a fair bit of time if you have the charisma and the correct prevailing conditions.

 

I am sure when they got a few years into the path to destruction, many would have wanted out but it would have been too late. The ball had picked up too much momentum and they had pissed away their right to free speech by allowing the mad fcuker unfettered control. One word out of place and you're dead.

 

Night of the long knives being the example, every single political enemy killed off with propaganda to create excuses.

I think there was enough of the population who got quite into it.

You'll have to forgive me for not subscribing to the, go along with it or I'll be killed, defence.

I think there was enough of the population who got quite into it.

You'll have to forgive me for not subscribing to the, go along with it or I'll be killed, defence.

 

Drawing a very long bow there. No one suggested any such thing.

 

The vast majority of the populace hadn't much of a clue about the final solution and other vile goings on. Chinese whispers syndrome and rumours maybe.

 

After the ravages of the post WW1 depression, its associated humiliation (particularly at the hands of the surrender monkeys) and the excesses of the Weimar republic, a full belly and reliable job would have probably seemed like Valhalla and be all the majority cared about.

 

One of the great things the allies did was parade the locals around the death camps to show them what they had been supporting - inadvertently or otherwise.

I think there was enough of the population who got quite into it.

You'll have to forgive me for not subscribing to the, go along with it or I'll be killed, defence.

 

In a way, you can see why they were conned into supporting the NSDAP. It's another case of the right conditions prevailing.

 

1). Hitler turned unemployment from 7,000,000 to effectively nil at the height of a recession.

2). He freed Germany from the humiliating shackles of the Treaty of Versailles.

 

I genuinely believe it was too late before anything could be done to stop the cascade once Hitler was in power. He never gained a majority vote and from a certain point, once it became a dictatorial regime, polling wasn't a private affair. Those who cast against, or spoiled their ballot were shipped off to concentration camps (not death camps though), as was anyone vocal in objection to the Nazi's.

 

The only people who could therefore really stop them were foreign powers, who not only had the right but the responsibility to take military action for Germany's breach of Versailles, i.e. their occupation of the de-militarized Rhineland, re-armement.

If we murdered slaughtered 3,000,000 tomorrow, we'd have no unemployment either.

If we murdered slaughtered 3,000,000 tomorrow, we'd have no unemployment either.

Yes, but you can see why they fell for it. What's it matter that your neighbour with the big nose and the rest of the family disappeared.

Clearly, it touches me this subject, so best I leave it.

If we murdered slaughtered 3,000,000 tomorrow, we'd have no unemployment either.

 

Eh? The holocaust didn't pre-date the war. Hindsight is a lovely thing.

Eh? The holocaust didn't pre-date the war. Hindsight is a lovely thing.

 

I'm aware of the timeline, I was merely making a point that he later found other ways to avoid unemployment and that we could get rid of some workshy fuckers too.

Yes, but you can see why they fell for it. What's it matter that your neighbour with the big nose and the rest of the family disappeared.

Clearly, it touches me this subject, so best I leave it.

 

Maybe so, the prejudice against Jewry far pre-dates 'the third Reich'. Actual agression against Jews i.e. disposition and deportation didn't begin until AFTER Hitler came into power. Obviously every German of the era, including Jews, was of such low character and ignorance that they happily allowed it to occur.

Maybe so, the prejudice against Jewry far pre-dates 'the third Reich'. Actual agression against Jews i.e. disposition and deportation didn't begin until AFTER Hitler came into power. Obviously every German of the era, including Jews, was of such low character and ignorance that they happily allowed it to occur.

 

You are wrong. My family left Austria between the 2 wars due to danger they knew were going to be in. That was before the 3rd Reich. The feelings towards them predated the war. There was an influx over here in the early 30s due to this.

How am I wrong? Hitler didn't even live in Austria after 1913 and was staunchly against the Hapsburg state. Austria had it's own problems after the Great War, included a civil war and it's own fascist regime which was an opponent of NDSAP. I have no doubt your family left because of a feeling of danger, like I said, anti-Semitism was about 2000 years older then the Third Reich, and was rife in Europe from the 1850's. I doubt it they left because of some fantastic prediction of annhilation though at the hands of Germany, which right up until the late 30's was effectively impossible to envisage.

...prediction of annhilation though at the hands of Germany, which right up until the late 30's was effectively impossible to envisage.

 

Do you know this from a book or from talking to those directly affected?

I've read quite widely on it. No I haven't talked to millions of dead people, would be quite an hard feat that.

 

Edit: Just noticed you said you read it in your first reply, Shirer's book alone is well researched and referenced enough, as well as his own perspective, to allow anyone to come to this opinion.

 

Of course, the ignorance of an entire continent is a better explanation, they obviously knew what was happening / going to happen.

Edited February 23, 201214 yr by Boothy

I've read quite widely on it. No I haven't talked to millions of dead people, would be quite an hard feat that.

 

 

My family lived in Northern Austria which was and still is very influenced by Baviania. I can assure you I know why they left. You may've read about it, but there are people still alive who can recant stories if you wish me to point you in their direction.

I haven't talked to millions of dead people, would be quite an hard feat that.

 

Do you have to be dead to have been affected?

I've actually read a lot of survivor testimony that re-enforces the fact that Jews were well integrated into European affairs, pre and post WWI. Hitler was out of politics for the majority period between the periods your talking about prior to 1933. There was resounding anti-Semitism in Europe at the period away from Nazism.

Do you have to be dead to have been affected?

 

Traf, have you got a point to make here or what?

 

If you've got a different theory, i.e. Nazi's were freely welcomed to power and Jews weren't integrated, why don't you put it forward rather than spinning little comments to make me look a dick. Ofcourse I know that there are displaced peoples who were affected.

There was resounding anti-Semitism in Europe at the period away from Nazism.

 

So it was already a popular idea he developed. Therefore, this brings us back to many Germans turning a blind eye.

The world hasn't changed that much when you think about it. As Traf said, you don't have to have ended up in a camp to have been affected by what happened.

Traf, have you got a point to make here or what?

 

My point was merely that I (and probably millions of others around the world) would disagree with your assertion that Jews only really felt vulnerable in the late 30's and onwards.

 

So, take your head out of your arse and don't offer opinions on an open forum if you don't like them being challenged.

 

You, just like the rest of us on here, don't need help in looking like a dick.