paulhanley

Interesting question isn't it. You'd imagine there'd be no coming back from 2-0. But they'd no doubt start papping on about "lies" and about how all us thickos were conned again. We've seen the true nature of these characters now.

They like to presume Malcolm. That's why they were so confounded on June 24, 2016.

They don't need to - that's the latitude you get when you're unaccountable. The only people they really listen to are the big corporate businesses they favour with their stultifying regulation that keeps new competitors from entering their markets. I don't think I've ever met a remainer who doesn't believe the EU is in need of huge reform (step forward and prove me wrong, Wanderersways remainers). They admit it in a way that makes you believe they think it's actually going to happen .... and without ever doing anything at the ballot box or elsewhere to make it happen. The difference between us and them is that we've lost patience in a big way and they continue to give it the benefit of the doubt. The EU relies on them never waking up. In essence though their admittance that the EU needs reforming means they're at the start of the journey we on the leave side of this debate have completed in recent years. Because the EU ain't reforming.

Yeah but that's the point. They're never ever going to reform. Its been tried and its smashed in to a brick wall. That's why millions of people like me who ten years ago couldn't have seen their views evolving the way they have are so anti EU. Democracy, accountability - its just not in the EUs federalist/corporatist genes. The parliament we all voted for yesterday does not hold the power. The 20 odd unelected EU commissioners do. Please understand that it is precisely the EUs failure to reform over many years that has led to its current unpopularity around Europe. Its stubborn arrogance is never going to change. Can you present any credible evidence that the EU is ready to reform?

Correct.

The Brexit Party won. The sheer irony and hypocrisy of you of all people telling someone to get over an election result. 😀

You do get the impression that it wouldn't have mattered what the maths looked like this morning. Is there a straw left anywhere in the UK that has not been clutched by a remainer? Some salient points: Six weeks ago the Brexit party did not exist. This morning it has the largest number of votes and 31.7 per cent overall. Startling stuff. That's certainly a couple of per cent more than I was expecting yesterday. That's five per cent more than UKIP got in 2014. Given UKIP got 3.3 per cent of the vote this time that's 35 per cent for overtly no deal leave parties compared to 27 per cent in 2014... and that was the election that forced Cameron in to a referendum that opened the door to us really seeing what the people of this country think of the EU. Turnout at this election was 36 per cent. At the 2016 referendum it was 72 per cent. Remainers need to be very, very aware of that disparity instead of defaulting to their usual status of wallowing in their own hubris - a state of mind that led to pure bewildered shock on the morning of June 24, 2016. Nothing comes close to touching the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit in 2016. In just the same way that the dismal online petition for a second referendum got up a few months ago petered out. The Conservative party now knows what it has to do. It could not be any clearer. I await the new Prime Minister with interest - with a new negotiating strategy to follow. Election results in Italy, France, Germany and many other parts of the continent are of no comfort to those for whom Brussels can do no wrong. As I've said on here so many times - people who want this country out of the EU are here to stay. The pre-2016 comfort-zone for those in love with the EU is gone forever. They need to stop yearning for it and accept the new reality. Europe is and always shall be a continent of proud nation states. The trend of those nation states reasserting their pre-eminence continued last night both here and across the English Channel.

And Blackpool. Right up three with all three of those.

You're vapid. Go and mither someone else.

I hope this is now where we finally have a "leave" Prime-Minister who will rid us of Hammond and shake-up the civil service. The wheels are slowly moving in terms of fulfilling the wishes of the 17.4m people who voted for Brexit.

Pretty evil. Didn't quite stop us going up though! In came Gudni...

No worries and there'll be more to come. I just wish I had some from the early 80s as well.

Yeah I've got that too. All the trouble seems to be at half time between the Bolton fans and the Old Bill. And all the goals in the last 20-25 mins. Was a real nail in the coffin as York were struggling with us.

Yes - and when he came back he was never quite the same! It was indeed a Sunday game. We were 0-1 up and ended up losing 2-1.

The relegation season to Div 4 - 1986/7 - was pretty grim throughout, with the exception of a short run of results in late November/early December. During that run we beat York 3-1 at home thanks to a good goal by Asa Hartford and two poacher's goals by Tony Caldwell. Marco Gabbiadini - later to become infamous among Bolton fans for his crude challenge as a Derby player on Simon Coleman - wins and converts the York penalty

The relegation season to Div 4 - 1986/7 - was pretty grim throughout, with the exception of a short run of results in late November/early December. During that run we beat York 3-1 at home thanks to a good goal by Asa Hartford and two poacher's goals by Tony Caldwell. Marco Gabbiadini - later to become infamous among Bolton fans for his crude challenge as a Derby player on Simon Coleman - wins and converts the York penalty.

No doubt the people who did it think they are tolerant and he isn't. Hypocrisy as usual.

I think Blackpool are out of the woods now. Bury .... you could be right.

The nation state is the upper limit of democracy in my view. The nation state has for centuries been the likeliest political unit to have demos. We can argue whether Kearsley should be governed from Bolton, whether there is any need for a "Manchester Mayor" or whether there should be greater devolution in England if you like. But we're essentially arguing about the correct political units around which to organise ourselves. Such units need to exist otherwise its anarchy. I think that the clear common sense building block is the nation state and that there is no need for an unweildy, monolithic super-structure above that. Especially a didactic, hidebound super-structure on a journey to federalism and within which key decisions are taken by people who are not elected - as opposed to the trading bloc that we joined on a false prospectus in the 1970s. It is the EUs behaviour and failure to reform that is one of the reasons that people hold the entirely legitimate view that we should leave. British people are not alone in this view as you will discover on Sunday evening. Instead of looking down its nose at those who question its legitimacy ,the EU could do with having a long hard look at itself and its behaviour over many years. It won't though. It knows best. Just like you and your remain pals know best.

To me next season is about trying to stay up and avoiding embarrassment against Bury and Blackpool. Couldn't really care about Fleetwood, Rochdale, Accrington et al.

So what if it's not in your national interest but it gets imposed on majority decision? Is that not just a tad inconvenient for the nation state in question?

Ah. So they all have the same view at all times do they? From Greece to Portugal and from Italy to Britain. I must have missed that. How silly of me.

The EU is not interested in reform. We are told time and again that reform from within is an option. It has been proven many times over the last 20 years that it is not. Didactic, hidebound single route to federalism. Or to put it another way - banging your head against a brick wall. Everything must bend to "the project". We need to get out. Other European countries need to get out. Any organisation that is so impervious to the external environment is doomed to fail

Yes. Quite. I doubt dear old Mr Farnon would have been.

Just voted for Mr Farage. If you'd told me 10 or event 5 years ago that this was going to happen I'd have been surprised and struggled to understand how. However the pathetic child-like tantrum behaviour in defeat of zealous remoaners, the hidebound stubborn arrogance of Verhofstadt and his federalist chums and of course the deceitful and duplicitous performance from our two main political parties stuffed full of career politicians who think they are above democracy has gradually made this inevitable. And I'd rather have voted for one of those two than the sickening Illiberal Undemocrats who believe in democracy even less than Robert Mugabe in a bad mood. The lot of them have been exposed for what they are. If you believe in democracy, vote for the Brexit Party. People who believe in this country's ability to govern its own affairs and in leaving the EU are never, ever going away. The pre-June 2016 status quo is gone forever.