Johnnyrotten

I can't comment as I didn't watch, but Brownie said the opposite on GMR. Said he made no impact, didn't make good enough runs, his cross to Dalby that went behind when we broke was dreadful, and he didn't have the energy to close the keeper down despite only being on 20 minutes.

First clean sheet away last season was in December at Mansfield. First one v 11 men was at Wigan in January. 2 clean sheets running away if we include Bradford.

Surely if they can't score with all that possession it says the opposite? Finished 16th last season, 2 points above PNE, have they strengthened that much? I had them down as one of the teams not that would go down because they are better than that, but a team we could aim to catch should we have a better than expected season nearer to half way than bottom 3.

Blimey I wouldn't go that far! Every time I recall last week it still brings a warm glow. PNE feels like one of them occasions I'll remember in 20 years. But a fantastic point today. 4 points after 2 games is 3 more than I dared hope for 8 days ago.

Ironic that according to the radio Evatt did exactly that today! Under the cosh at Stockport and scored twice against the run of play. But a breath of fresh air to be 2nd best away and battle to a point. Not sure when it last happened but I'll find out at some point. Loving this league! Even pre-match I was thinking how different it felt having an away game and not being too desperate for a result, if we'd lost today it wouldn't be half as bad as some L1 defeats.

Forino now the first outfield player I look for on the teamsheet. If he's playing, it feels like we have a chance, everyone else is interchangeable aside from if we've got a load of injuries (like now!). Just seems a mystery that its taken so long for him to be recognised as our best defender by a mile.

Is that a rare criticism of SS? 😄 I'd have taken him off immediately he went down, it wasn't just a small knock, he was creased for a couple of minutes. And not like it was 1st half when you want to stick with the pre-game plan. Just doesn't make sense with so many sub options (Christie, Olazabal drop back, Brunt).

Only 1 year deal, seems odd if that's his best offer

Also played the last 20 minutes at Wembley, came on for Conway. It was only 2-1 when he came on and it could have gone wrong. But I seem to recall he was really steady, calm and defensively sound, looked every inch the experienced player he is. Not for the first time. And let's not forget he's the only player we have left that can take a decent corner. Of course the one issue is his lack of pace, and recovery getting back from attacks or set pieces. But he's far from a disaster zone, plenty of qualities others don't possess - heading and strength is arguably better than Stephenson for eg.

Some good interesting comments from Dalby about their partnership. One of the 11 games, McAtee got sent off in the first half at 0-0 and still gets credit for being part of the win, what a talent 😄 Its surprising, I was expecting Dalby to say "who cares that he's had one half decent game, everyone's seen that he's been crap for the last 2 years, I need a new partner". He just doesn't understand the game as well as some.

That's logical but if we get £1mil offers in the last 2 days of the window for first teamers, they can only go if replaced and judging by how long that takes I'd say they're going nowhere. Imagine Forino, Sheehan and Dalby leaving on 31st Aug and us counting the money rather than the points till January.

I'm not adding to the McAtee debate any more, and I agree with what you say, but I'm puzzled by the question over his best position? He came as a striker/no.10 same as Collins, Kenny etc. He's played there for as long as I've seen him ( Barnsley and here) hasn't he? Scores and creates consistent with a striker/no.10 rather than a CF like Dalby. But his natural position is striker not like other so-called no.10s like Randall etc who's a midfielder.

Not sure of the significance of ambition in this discussion. You said if McAtee and Gale play badly at QPR, chances are last week was an anomaly. I'm saying if they play badly on Saturday, its no more significant than them playing well the week before, because we do a lot of playing badly away (as do PNE if last week was anything to go by).

I've exceeded my comments on McAtee, this is a general point: Away games when our best players didn't play well last season, and I'm being polite: Barnsley, Northampton, Burton, Mansfield (we won), Wycombe, Doncaster, Peterboro, Rotherham, Port Vale, Cardiff. So I won't be judging our players in away games in the championship, if we'd judged them in L1 away games most of them would have got sold in January without having the chance to get to the play offs.

I agree, no more McAtee, trouble is folk keeping bringing him up. Let's all move on. I love ACD, he's absolute quality. Just saying if we hadn't got in the play offs, which could have easily happened, I don't think his 2 goals v Stevenage would have been enough to keep his stock as high as it was post-Wembley. His biggest fans (me) would say he had a few quiet performances after Port Vale 4-0 and when you get injured relatively long term its easy to get forgotten about.

It isn't black or white though, with either player. Its not shit or brilliant, its not 1 out of 10 or 9 out of 10. Its probably ranging from 5 to 8, every time they play, just like Conway, GJ, Tutu, ACD, Burstow, Dalby, Toal, Simons, Sheehan. Not sure why it would be based on 1 game, when they've had a lot of good games/good sub appearances in their time. I'm bored of myself mentioning McAtee, but I'm genuinely puzzled why folk have dismissed that he was our main creative threat away from home when he was getting starts. And that he hasn't had a performance any worse than a Burstow, Kenny or Dalby poor game in the last year or 2.

Works both ways too, we (he) could halve his value next season. Not hard to see a scenario where we're bottom 6, so he's not scoring many compared to top end L1, a few quiet performances like last winter, gets injured for 2 or 3 months maybe. His current value will be partly based on the impact he made in the play offs, especially the goal v Bradford. If we hadn't got in the play offs, he hardly did anything after November for us and they wouldn't be getting £7mil for him IMO.

We've played 4 games in the last 3 months or so. All packed houses, big pivotal games, arguably against "rivals", huge media coverage and pressure. Won all 4! Never behind in any, only conceded 2. Great credit to SS, not many times in our history we've had 4 such games on the trot and won them all. We've come a long way since having 4 games against Mansfield, Doncaster, Northampton and Posh, got 2 points and were never leading.

I agree, let's face it PNE were awful and played right into our hands. And had some players that wouldn't have got in our team in L1 eg their RB. The long term limitations applies to every player though. If that wasn't the case, we'd be expecting Conway, Gale, EE and Sheehan to waltz through another 45 championship games, if fit. McAtee just seems to be regarded differently, there's always an asterisk next to any perceived improved games.

If a decent offer comes in I'd move him on too, if we can sign better (without spending about £5mil like PNE or Bristol City on fairly average players). I can only politely disagree with the bit about seeing what I want to see. I just want what's best for the team and have no interest in sticking up for this player or that. There are a few players I really rate (eg Conway, Sheehan, ACD) and without exception if they have a bad game, which all 3 did last season a few times, I say they've had a bad 'un. I even criticised Kieran Lee once.

Birmingham and Orient at home (admittedly season before last but 2 big games at the time that he turned). Barnsley home, Wimbledon away, Bradford away, Stockport at Wembley. He's hardly started any games last 18 months and can have his sending off thrown at him, but I'm struggling to think of more than 1 or 2 games he started when he didn't play similar to Saturday. And when he comes on in league games he nearly always makes a positive impact. FWIW I think his performance v PNE has been exaggerated because there was a perception he's crap. He was decent without being outstanding, eg that volley at goal 2nd half was OK but was arguably a wasted opportunity. He made a few infuriating errors, hence we can sign better if we want to pay for it. But his standard on Saturday was just his normal level, it shouldn't be either exaggerated or taken as a one off, he's not Apter or Randall.

I'd have thought getting rid of him is a risk we can't afford at the moment. At this rate it would be Randall as a stand in no.10. Course I'd love us to sign someone better, but if Hardie isn't exactly risk-free, and RR clearly isn't, having a McAtee seems the ideal scenario for us. We aren't going to get a back up striker that's better unless its an untested kid on loan that may or may not work. If we sign a Kenny or Dean they'll expect to start regularly, McAtee showed last season he's comfortable with the stand in role and probably be happy to do that in this league.

It was a bad 'un but some mitigation for not being a striker. I'm trying to imagine any of our players with a similar opportunity (and the ball was travelling at speed) and the only player I could imagine scoring is Dalby and maybe Toal. I could see Forino not adjusting his huge frame quick enough to get over it, and from days gone by would GJ have buried it or even made contact? Santos would have missed by a mile 😄

I thought I was seeing things with Brunt, I didn't know what he looked like and thought we must have re-signed Basham 😄 Very similar in physique and style/position. Strikes me from his 10 minutes that he could be a similarly versatile player across the defence or defensive midfield.

I get both arguments, keeping it fresh v maintaining personnel and shape that has put you in the lead. But I must admit I was wanting Sheehan to get subbed, after his almost-2nd-booking (obviously in hindsight it was no problem, but its still at the mercy of the ref's judgement). And I was fully expecting EE to only last till 70-ish minutes, so would have seen the sense in both of those going off, if we had alternatives! Which we didn't. I get the impression Watson isn't being considered currently barring another emergency situation, surely the last 10 minutes was a big case for a change in midfield, other players who are either very new to the squad or not necessarily ready were picked, but no sign of Watson. Which makes us even shorter in midfield currently if that's the case.