Came on here this morning expecting this to be a big topic. Interesting comments about a 2 x 18 team Premier league etc. A lot of stuff we'd discussed on here some months back - draft system, salary cap etc. Has to come one day or football will implode. Just surprised Gartys got it in mainstream discussion already.

cue abuse from other teams fans and media.

 

and i would understand this reaction,

 

there are more than 36 clubs in this country capable of hosting premiership football.

 

that's my initial thought to this suggestion by gartside

Edited October 23, 200817 yr by Alf Hartigan

he has suggested it should be a closed shop,no relegation,

 

that's the reason behind my earlier post

TBH Alf, my interest is more in the salary cap, draft system comments. Would be a marvellous advancement for the game in my view. Just think of how the glory would shift around instead of being in the hands of the few. Even better, think how many glory hunting sh1thouses would have their so called 'loyalty' put to the test once their heroes for this year become also rans for a few years.

 

Further, over paid prima donna players would be a thing of the past. We might get back to players growing to love the club they're with as much as the fans do (e.g. John McGinlay).

 

I hope it happens.

cue abuse from other teams fans and media.

 

and i would understand this reaction,

 

Here to oblige.

 

I would piss myself if the elite did implement it and invited the like's of Forest and Leeds (don't forget Rangers and Celtic) to replace the undesirables like your good selves.

Edited October 24, 200817 yr by green genie

Salary cap - great

Drafting - want to hear more

No Relegation - no way!

Much less bothered about having a salary cap than having a ticket price cap.

 

Draft? Surely that just takes us down the closed shop American Football franchise route. And if they're going to do that they might not even put us in the top 36 never mind 18.

After all, think about it. 36 franchises, from scratch - you'd want to maximise geographical spread, catchment area, so deffo would be:

 

Liverpool, Everton, Filth, City from NW.

Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham from London, plus QPR because of their money and Charlton to make sure there was a south of the river team.

 

Ipswich and Norwich to cater for the East.

Leicester, Forest and Derby for East Midlands.

Brum, Villa, Wolves, WBA for Midlands.

Soton and Pompey for south coast.

Swansea and Cardiff for the taffies plus Bristol City for the yokels.

Newcastle and Sunderland for NE.

Leeds, the two Sheffields for Yorkshire - and probably Hull as well.

Carlisle to get an outpost up there.

 

That gets you to 31. Of the rest, Fulham and Boros finances would get them in and then you'd have strong geographical claims to be made by Palace, Stoke, Brighton in a nice new stadium (strong case that one), Plymouth as another one for the yokels. And I'd bet the case for the original franchisers, MKDons would get pushed through as well.

So I'd say you'd be looking at 1 other NW team, very tops. Would it be us? Maybe....but only maybe.

And of course this is assuming they didn't get the Old Firm down!

 

Be careful what you wish for Bolty old son!

rather than a closed shop

 

perhaps a play off between the bottom 2 of the prem2 and the top 3 in the next league down.

 

2nd and 3rd play each other

bottom of the prem2 plays top of championship

they play each other

the winner plays 2nd bottom in the prem 2

 

or summert similar

in order to ensure those who come in have earnt it.

 

sallary caps sound like a good idea to me but it needs to be installed by FIFA

 

plus the big clubs will still be big clubs as it's have to be done as a % of turnover

Instead of salary caps, could they implement dutch caps all round ?

if they introduced a 2 x 18 league with caps, you'd have the top 4 and maybe more (certainly city) start planning their own euro league

 

all the good players would want to go and play there

 

the championship would be the ones to benefit and teams of the fringes of league 1

 

have thought about it for 2 mins and that's my initial conclusion

 

still early mind

A trult "revolutionary" idea (using Gartside's terms) would be a proper distribution of TV money throghout the whole of the football league and 4-up/4-down from every division. But of course the Premiership clubs don't believe in real competition as they're too busy grabbing cash whilst kicking away the ladder beneath them.

 

The fact is that we would never have experienced the delights of European football, Djorkaeff, Okocha, etc. if this idea had been implemented 15 years ago. What a fool Gartside is for showing and utter contempt for history and where we've come from.

Much less bothered about having a salary cap than having a ticket price cap.

 

Draft? Surely that just takes us down the closed shop American Football franchise route. And if they're going to do that they might not even put us in the top 36 never mind 18.

After all, think about it. 36 franchises, from scratch - you'd want to maximise geographical spread, catchment area, so deffo would be:

 

Liverpool, Everton, Filth, City from NW.

Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham from London, plus QPR because of their money and Charlton to make sure there was a south of the river team.

 

Ipswich and Norwich to cater for the East.

Leicester, Forest and Derby for East Midlands.

Brum, Villa, Wolves, WBA for Midlands.

Soton and Pompey for south coast.

Swansea and Cardiff for the taffies plus Bristol City for the yokels.

Newcastle and Sunderland for NE.

Leeds, the two Sheffields for Yorkshire - and probably Hull as well.

Carlisle to get an outpost up there.

 

That gets you to 31. Of the rest, Fulham and Boros finances would get them in and then you'd have strong geographical claims to be made by Palace, Stoke, Brighton in a nice new stadium (strong case that one), Plymouth as another one for the yokels. And I'd bet the case for the original franchisers, MKDons would get pushed through as well.

So I'd say you'd be looking at 1 other NW team, very tops. Would it be us? Maybe....but only maybe.

And of course this is assuming they didn't get the Old Firm down!

 

Be careful what you wish for Bolty old son!

 

Who are "they" though?

 

None of the current PL are going to vote for their own exclusion.

 

And not many of them are going to want to invite back potential "big" clubs - it would make it harder for them to win anything.

 

Given that the decision would be made by the Premier League, it would then be a case of whoever's in it now, plus whoever they decide to invite.

 

And whilst you have a point about creating new franchises from scratch, you haven't done it - merely decided that the current clubs continue.

 

Which would kill off football for everyone else. What are you going to do when you've killed football, Gartside?

rather than a closed shop

 

perhaps a play off between the bottom 2 of the prem2 and the top 3 in the next league down.

 

2nd and 3rd play each other

bottom of the prem2 plays top of championship

they play each other

the winner plays 2nd bottom in the prem 2

 

or summert similar

in order to ensure those who come in have earnt it.

 

Frank I ain't picking at you mate but that's crazy talk

 

I think 46 games is more than enough to 'earn' your promotion, why the hell should the teams from above get a second chance at staying up? I can see no possible justification for this.

 

Gartside is a dick. What if they'd implemented this closed shop in 1988?

 

Load of old boll?cks, the lot of it

 

Also these clubs are private (or public) businesses and nobody has the right to tell them how much they can pay people. Least of all some f?cking French / Germans from FIFA. They are just jealous of the Premier League.

 

 

Green Genie is dead right

Who are "they" though?

 

None of the current PL are going to vote for their own exclusion.

 

And not many of them are going to want to invite back potential "big" clubs - it would make it harder for them to win anything.

 

Given that the decision would be made by the Premier League, it would then be a case of whoever's in it now, plus whoever they decide to invite.

 

And whilst you have a point about creating new franchises from scratch, you haven't done it - merely decided that the current clubs continue.

 

Which would kill off football for everyone else. What are you going to do when you've killed football, Gartside?

 

But what is the deal with PL voting? Of the teams I mentioned, 17 are already in the PL. If they were happy, can the other three veto it?

On the franchise front it could be argued that they are franchises in that its done geographically - in a stripped down version, for example, where it was 18 in a new look PL you might have a dozen permanent members and then one extra NW place to fight for. NOT that I'm advocating any crap like that you understand....but I can see it coming eg if Sky decided that a bigger geographical spread would increase revenue for them.

Frank I ain't picking at you mate but that's crazy talk

 

I think 46 games is more than enough to 'earn' your promotion, why the hell should the teams from above get a second chance at staying up? I can see no possible justification for this.

 

to prove they are 'better' than the team they are replacing

 

i'm just trying to think of a system where the same 6 teams or so don't keep coming up then going down.

 

it is a daft idea but it may well happen

Be careful what you wish for Bolty, young man!

 

 

No fooker reads my posts. Only interested in the draft and salary cap bits. NOT two 18 team PL's

 

It's them fecking Dorset Nagas. Fried some grey matter.

Only interested in the draft and salary cap bits.

I know it's been asked before, but where would the drafted players come from?

I know it's been asked before, but where would the drafted players come from?

 

A national academy? Or from colleges and universities, as in the US..?

A national academy? Or from colleges and universities, as in the US..?

But we don't have anything like the college system they have.

 

There's a reason they don't get 90,000 turning out to watch Loughborough play Crewe and Alsager.

If anything changes with the Premier League set-up, it'll be because of money or protection of status.

Nothing else counts with the f**kers in charge, least of all 'football' or 'fans'. And I inlcude the FA, UEFA & FIFA in that.

Just a thought ......

No fooker reads my posts. Only interested in the draft and salary cap bits. NOT two 18 team PL's

 

It's them fecking Dorset Nagas. Fried some grey matter.

aye, but the only model in which the draft has worked is in the closed shop scenario of franchises. My worry is that some level of draft could be introduced and on the back of that the PL will shut up shop - I wouldnt want that even if we were in it (and as I say, I don't believe they would have us in anyhow).

As soon as anything artificial is done (bar salary capping which is somewhat separate) they (the combination of the most powerful clubs and Sky) will change minor tinkering into massive restructuring - it'll be the chance they've waited for, mark my words. And that will be geographically based. I can feel it in me water.

aye, but the only model in which the draft has worked is in the closed shop scenario of franchises.

The draft doesn't work because all the teams (nearly all the teams, Bolty, I know!) are franchised. It works because college sport is sufficiently far-reaching and of a high enough standard to feed the major leagues, and because North American sport is considerably less global than our beloved national game.

gartside's only mentioned this incase we might get relegated.

If nowt else, has caused some healthy debate. I do not profess to know all the answers. I haven't a clue where the draft players would come from. Not too long ago, we wouldn't have envisaged loads of foreigners playing in England. Things change and develop.

 

All I do know is that, like inflation, if players salaries and transfer fees are allowed to escalate without any form of control, football is likely to implode. It just can't go on unchecked.

The draft doesn't work because all the teams (nearly all the teams, Bolty, I know!) are franchised.

 

It is a special club that (in more ways than one).