There is far too much doom and gloom here for my liking also. Having spent the first 28 years of my life in Bolton I realise that some people would say that there is a cup of half empty mentality about the place, which possibly lends itself in many positive ways to the character of the area, and so much of this negativity should be taken with a pinch of salt, but nevertheless the negativity is bordering on breeding untruths. IMO some of these are:

 

1.) Though the Watford game was dire, it wasn't because we were playing hoof football, or trying to play hoof football. In fact, with Anelka in for Davies, we were coming unstuck trying to play passing football on the floor against a very effective, more direct team.

 

2.) There is a lot of reference to our crap style of play. Whilst it is not Arsenal, it is certainly comaprable to Chelsea, and no one was criticising it against Tottenham, or home games against West Ham, Charlton, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool amongst others last year. People on here are disturblingly starting to sound like the press. The press started this bandwagon in what most BWFC fans would call an entertaining 2-1 win v Newcastle in October 2004. Our style of play is often direct (not as direct as the press make out), and can lead to some awful games, and some fantastic ones, but surely that is the case for all styles of play unless you are the likes of Barcelona.

 

3.) A number of people are saying that BSA will leave when the next decent job comes along. This may be correct, but don't underestimate either the influence of PG, and the fact that BSA is BWFC through and through and has a genuine desire to be successful here. Also he is an effective manager not because he is great tatically, but because he has had the vision to put a large and effective structure in place, and then to stick to this structure and man manage individuals well enough to make it work. Also he has had strong support from his employers. It would take a long time to set up such a structure at another club.

 

4.) The club does not lack ambition and have suggested and stated repeatedly that they want to get in the top 4 and win trophies. Surely this is a reason to back the club at this time.

 

5.) BSA was not criticising any indivdual supporters during his piece in the BEN on Monday. He was saying I am continuing to make this club successful, why are the fans not turning up. A genuine point of view surely? I am aware as much as anybody about the issues at the Reebok around pure customer service, cost, parking etc. etc., and how bad the Watford game was, but it is still a valid point of view from the manager who is continuing to achieve miracles here on the pitch.

well said bristol nice to see someone is living in the real world

who you you replace him with ?????????????????????

5.) BSA was not criticising any indivdual supporters during his piece in the BEN on Monday. He was saying I am continuing to make this club successful, why are the fans not turning up. A genuine point of view surely? I am aware as much as anybody about the issues at the Reebok around pure customer service, cost, parking etc. etc., and how bad the Watford game was, but it is still a valid point of view from the manager who is continuing to achieve miracles here on the pitch.

 

I agree with everything except this bit. Why is Sam asking a question that any old fool can answer? There are many, many reason, they've all been discussed on here and I could reel them off. Asking the question repeatedly in the media but not listening to the answers makes you a tw??t in my opinion.

 

If Sam was THAT interested, they have a database of thousands of lapsed season ticket holders. Give a few of them a bell. No one at BWFC has asked me why I've withdrawn my custom, let alone the manager.

Bang on there Carlos.

 

If I lost a customer I'd be finding out why, and doing something to resolve the issue, not whining to anyone who will listen about them.

I get interested in other people comments but at the end of the day i will always go watching Bolton they are my team. I will be the first to admit dont always travel away now as i just dont feel its the same as when we were in the lower leagues. I also admit that the reebok is different and the premiership. Footballs changed but i think big sam is the best manager we could ever have and while i can i will always go watching .

As I've said before, it comes back to what size crowd we "should" be getting for an early season game against Watford - a team who, with the best will in the world and with all due respect, are hardly the biggest draw.

I hate to keep harking back to days of yore but it can be instructive. At the start of our top flight season in 1978-79 we played home to Norwich in September. Now think of all the things that that had going for it terms of big crowd size:

Match day costs a fraction of what they are today (even in real terms).

Terraces, no stewards.

Burnden easier to get to than the Reebok.

No Sky to compete with the live action.

etc etc

And the crowd (for what was in effect a simlar game to home to Watford ie tricky opponents but no great rivalry)? 19,900.

Now if that was what we were getting back then in those circumstances it surely indicates our likely support level now. Why the hell should we be getting significantly greater crowds now than we were then?

Now OK, you can argue that crowds are dwindling somewhat and ST sales were down. But I think you still have to look at the level we are at now and ask is it what you could expect - and what we are seeing is pretty much it. After all, in the last season in the Championship (or whatever it was called then) we basically had a hard core of 13-14k. If we're now saying we've 40-50% onto that then thats bloody good going for 5 years.

As many have pointed out, stopping a ST does not mean stopping watching Bolton. Its just means prioritising, saving etc. Indeed I bet you a good few will actually end up giving more money to Bolton than they would have done by keeping the ST on when they end up finding themselves going to more games than they anticipated!

Of course there are situations where you would hope people would make the special effort - if this had been home to Watford at the end of the season with a win guaranteeing Europe then you would have hoped it would have been full. Likewise, the Villa LC semi crowd was crap. Football is after all different to other events such as cinema in that the crowd can actually influence the course of the event - and I'm sure most of those who are being more selective now will still play their part when such games arise. But home to Watford in September aint one of those days.

I agree with everything except this bit. Why is Sam asking a question that any old fool can answer? There are many, many reason, they've all been discussed on here and I could reel them off. Asking the question repeatedly in the media but not listening to the answers makes you a tw??t in my opinion.

 

If Sam was THAT interested, they have a database of thousands of lapsed season ticket holders. Give a few of them a bell. No one at BWFC has asked me why I've withdrawn my custom, let alone the manager.

 

you make a good point no one has given me a call asking y i have desided not to renew my season ticket. in all honesty tho i dont mind im still going to almost all the games this season so i dout there to woried about me at the moment

Stop being so fcuking negative and enjoy.

 

Enjoy? Are you for real?

Saturday was, hopefully, rock bottom.

Enjoy? Are you for real?

Saturday was, hopefully, rock bottom.

 

i dont think its the worst we have ever played and won i remeber a game at the reebok when we played swindon and we didt have a shot all 90 minutes and then scored two in injury time

As I've said before, it comes back to what size crowd we "should" be getting for an early season game against Watford - a team who, with the best will in the world and with all due respect, are hardly the biggest draw.

I hate to keep harking back to days of yore but it can be instructive. At the start of our top flight season in 1978-79 we played home to Norwich in September. Now think of all the things that that had going for it terms of big crowd size:

Match day costs a fraction of what they are today (even in real terms).

Terraces, no stewards.

Burnden easier to get to than the Reebok.

No Sky to compete with the live action.

etc etc

And the crowd (for what was in effect a simlar game to home to Watford ie tricky opponents but no great rivalry)? 19,900.

Now if that was what we were getting back then in those circumstances it surely indicates our likely support level now. Why the hell should we be getting significantly greater crowds now than we were then?

Now OK, you can argue that crowds are dwindling somewhat and ST sales were down. But I think you still have to look at the level we are at now and ask is it what you could expect - and what we are seeing is pretty much it. After all, in the last season in the Championship (or whatever it was called then) we basically had a hard core of 13-14k. If we're now saying we've 40-50% onto that then thats bloody good going for 5 years.

As many have pointed out, stopping a ST does not mean stopping watching Bolton. Its just means prioritising, saving etc. Indeed I bet you a good few will actually end up giving more money to Bolton than they would have done by keeping the ST on when they end up finding themselves going to more games than they anticipated!

Of course there are situations where you would hope people would make the special effort - if this had been home to Watford at the end of the season with a win guaranteeing Europe then you would have hoped it would have been full. Likewise, the Villa LC semi crowd was crap. Football is after all different to other events such as cinema in that the crowd can actually influence the course of the event - and I'm sure most of those who are being more selective now will still play their part when such games arise. But home to Watford in September aint one of those days.

 

 

I agree we have never had consistently large crowds. I feel that our crowds were threatening to break out to a new level in 2003/04. The euphoria of staying up in 02/03 had resulted in 19500 season ticket holders, and crowds such as 25619 v SOTON 26419 v BORO early in the season showed we could practically fill the home end of the Reebok against unglamorous opposition. Then crowds like 28353 v Leicester, 27383 v Fulham, plus selling out all of the big games, ending with an average of 26795, showed we were heading into mid table in the Prem crowds league table.

 

Unfortunately the carling cup fiasco plus prices going up 15%, and what should have been a slight increase the next season turned into a slight decrease. And its been downhill ever since despite Europe and a better team.

 

IMO, I think this years drop is largely down to money. Europe last year was great, but the increase in cost and time spent made people ask themselves: 'Hang on, this is becoming difficult (in terms of cost of travelling time), just how much do I need to go to every game?' Bolton is not a wealthy place, and spending up to ??2k in a season on footy puts a dent in a lot of peoples household incomes.

 

I just hope we have a successful time this season, perhaps win a trophy, and the crowds come back later on. Whatever anyone says, crowds do matter, and its far more impressive to everyone concerned with football to have full stadiums than not.

What I am trying to say is that he has done all the hard work turning us into such a decent club that it will be fairly easy for a new manager to take over and keep us challenging for Europe season after season.

 

Stop being so fcuking negative and enjoy.

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Lets get behind the man for a change. He is right in having a go at the level of support,. I fear another poor crowd on saturday, but watch the buggers come out of the woodwork when we play Liverpool. This I fear will be our future in the Premiership. If you look at all the premiership crowds over the last twelve months most clubs have shown a decline in crowd figures.

 

We would all have loved for big sam to have got the england job for all the right reasons, but I can't honestly think who could fill his boots. He has got the best out of the players he has bought and has an excellent working relationship with the board. Get off his back and start supporting the most succesful manager that we have had in decades.

People are only having a pop back because he is hyper-critical of the good folk of Bolton, my people. He could have conveyed his concerns about attendances in a more positive manner and appealed for the people of Bolton to back them, he could have checked with one of the psychiatrists or motivational speakers the club employs before opening his big mouth. I'm sure some people would have responded positively, I might even have been one of them.

 

Given his sniping from behind the safety of the media, I dispute the fact he's man at all. A man would have at least apologised to the people who couldn't get in on Saturday and walked away, through no fault of their own.

Edited September 14, 200619 yr by Carlos

Think Allardyce was actually trying his best to reach out to the supporters.

 

The bit about not being motivated by empty crowds - think he was trying to say that supporters CAN make a difference to the team performance, please turn up.

 

Not for the first time though, he came across as a bit of an ars?? trying to get the message across.

 

He should perhaps just shut up about the fans post-match, and release carefully worded rallying calls via the website/press mid-week.

allardyce ha defintely gone about things in the wrongway

 

i'm one of those who will put up with his moaning and groaning while he gets results

 

but somebody should tell him to get his head out of is arse and ASK the fans to turn out

 

not to slag em off for not doing

 

cos its pretty clear plan A isn't working

The bit about not being motivated by empty crowds - think he was trying to say that supporters CAN make a difference to the team performance, please turn up.

 

The bloke never said please, it's not in his vocabulary.

 

Even Cassie agree, blimey. Point proven, I'll shut up now.