2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

When did I say that?

You didn’t need to

By saying she has total autonomy it’s simply logical that it would be for the entire term of a pregnancy.

And, you’d be right.

But my point is that we are now discussing at what stage it becomes medically impossible to abort.

Without going all Schrodinger, these two situations can co-exist.

No-one here is suggesting a woman loses control of her body. What we are getting at is that there comes a point in a pregnancy when the physical aspect becomes an issue.

Would aborting at 30 weeks be possible? I don’t think so but you may know otherwise.

 

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

No I don't. What is Danny Kruger's time limit on abortion?

You said a women has a right at any time earlier in the thread when I asked you what time limit you had and you didn’t have one 

I gave you the credit of not really wanting to kill unborn children but you inferred that you felt a woman has a choice over her body at any time . 
 

so if you do have I time limit, which I suspect you do, it’s different to this blokes, I suspect he’s earlier than both of us but given you won’t say yours, then I don’t know . 

To be graphic, in order to emphasise my point

If a baby has to be "born" as part of an abortion, are you not then killing a human?

Understandably, this is a messy issue in all cases, but a foetus that's a few weeks old and not really sentient is probably less of a moral minefield. Imo

1 minute ago, Spider said:

To be graphic, in order to emphasise my point

If a baby has to be "born" as part of an abortion, are you not then killing a human?

Understandably, this is a messy issue in all cases, but a foetus that's a few weeks old and not really sentient is probably less of a moral minefield. Imo

That’s exactly it. 
the debate is about when it stops being a clump if cells and becomes a human 

people have different views on that which is fair enough and medical advice states to a certain point 

cheese, despite his protestations on here will also have a point when he thinks it’s not ok , as it would result in killing a baby and he wouldn’t advocate that.

hes just being stubborn as acknowledging that time limit, no matter when it is, will also put him in the bracket of “ denying woman’s bodily autonomy “

but as someone else said, this is always the case after a certain point in time,

thinking that time should be different point because you believe it’s a child from earlier or later doesn’t make you a fascist .

 

3 minutes ago, fatolive said:

thinking that time should be different point because you believe it’s a child from earlier or later doesn’t make you a fascist .

Danny Kruger didn't mention a time limit or go into specifics. He questioned whether a woman should "have a Right to Bodily Autonomy in the case of abortion... because it involves another body".

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Danny Kruger didn't mention a time limit or go into specifics. He questioned whether a woman should "have a Right to Bodily Autonomy in the case of abortion... because it involves another body".

In Islam they call it ‘ensouled’ Thats when it becomes another body. Some Muslims say that’s after 120 days, some say 40. Pretty sure he’s not a Muslim but whatever religion or belief, it becomes another body. 

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Danny Kruger didn't mention a time limit or go into specifics. He questioned whether a woman should "have a Right to Bodily Autonomy in the case of abortion... because it involves another body".

Yes , it involves another body . 
pregnancy is exactly that isn’t it? One body carrying another . 
Again, I’ll say, you have a time limit on when you think that is a true statement. ( you won’t admit it but you don’t really think women can make a choice to kill infants at 9months )
his time it should be classed as another body and a child  is earlier than yours 

you both think unborn children shouldn’t be killed , just at different stages of pregnancy ,because , you have a different point in time when you consider it a child. 
 

if you do , as I suspect ,have a time limit, then you are against womens body autonomy after that point in time too 

you’re not a fascist and nether is he 

you just have different views 

 

 

4 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Yes , it involves another body . 
pregnancy is exactly that isn’t it? One body carrying another . 
Again, I’ll say, you have a time limit on when you think that is a true statement. ( you won’t admit it but you don’t really think women can make a choice to kill infants at 9months )
his time it should be classed as another body and a child  is earlier than yours 

you both think unborn children shouldn’t be killed , just at different stages of pregnancy ,because , you have a different point in time when you consider it a child. 
 

if you do , as I suspect ,have a time limit, then you are against womens body autonomy after that point in time too 

you’re not a fascist and nether is he 

you just have different views 

What is Danny Krugers' time limit? You are allowed to say "I don't know".

13 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Danny Kruger didn't mention a time limit or go into specifics. He questioned whether a woman should "have a Right to Bodily Autonomy in the case of abortion... because it involves another body".

His called into question whether women should have an absolute right to bodily autonomy, and then went on to state that he believes that right is a "qualified" one.

Although, if his views are on religious grounds, it's probably quite likely he believes there should be no right to abortion on request.

Just now, Cheese said:

What is Danny Krugers' time limit? You are allowed to say "I don't know".

Yes I know I am I have , multiple times

read the thread .. 
I don’t know again 

you’re allowed to say what your time limit is too but haven’t because it’ll prove your own stance wrong . 
his time limit could be anything from point of conception to to 24 weeks 

not sure how that changes the facts or what point you are making 

i would guess its earlier than yours as I’ve explained. 
you’re allowed to say you don’t understand 

 

Cheese

Se are all actually trying to sensibly debate a fairly sensitive topic.

None of us are fascists. None of us wish to deny women complete autonomy of their own bodies.

Thats clear. Honest it is - you know I’d pick up a fascist in a force 9 gale and we have none on this subject.

The point has now shifted to what is acceptable in terms of WHEN an abortion can be carried out and when it can’t.

I’m not actually asking what you think is a cut off point because quite honestly I don’t give a fuck, it’s your call.

But stop calling folk fascist. They’re not. Well, not on this topic anyroad ❤️

7 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Yes I know I am I have , multiple times

read the thread .. 
I don’t know again 

you’re allowed to say what your time limit is too but haven’t because it’ll prove your own stance wrong . 
his time limit could be anything from point of conception to to 24 weeks 

not sure how that changes the facts or what point you are making 

i would guess its earlier than yours as I’ve explained. 
you’re allowed to say you don’t understand 

It's none of my business what another person does with their body. My personal beliefs are irrelevant.

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

It's none of my business what another person does with their body. My personal beliefs are irrelevant.

Not if you are calling someone a fascist for his they’re not, when, as I said, you have the same view but just at a different point in time. 

you would deny a woman bodily autonomy after a certain point 

or

you agree to killing unborn children at any stage ( which I don’t think you do ) 

11 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Not if you are calling someone a fascist for his they’re not, when, as I said, you have the same view but just at a different point in time. 

you would deny a woman bodily autonomy after a certain point 

or

you agree to killing unborn children at any stage ( which I don’t think you do ) 

Do you think the current Laws on abortion in this country are fair?

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Do you think the current Laws on abortion in this country are fair?

They've never done me any harm.

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Do you think the current Laws on abortion in this country are fair?

Never looked into them but not heard many complaints. 
certainly think it’s fair not to terminate for no reason after 23 weeks ( or whatever it is) 

if I had a choice I’d probably put it earlier, but medical advice and consent of law seems fair from what I know . 

Why do you ask ? 
do you not? 

4 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Never looked into them but not heard many complaints. 
certainly think it’s fair not to terminate for no reason after 23 weeks ( or whatever it is) 

if I had a choice I’d probably put it earlier, but medical advice and consent of law seems fair from what I know . 

Why do you ask ? 
do you not? 

He'll say it's noneof his business. That it's no-one's business.

Apart from the 1,000's of people who have to make the laws. And the doctors. etc..

Just now, Spider said:

He'll say it's noneof his business. That it's no-one's business.

Apart from the 1,000's of people who have to make the laws. And the doctors. etc..

He’s talking himself around in circles as he’s realised that the only position he’s got is either fascist body autonomy denier or unborn children can be terminated at any time.

19 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Never looked into them but not heard many complaints. 
certainly think it’s fair not to terminate for no reason after 23 weeks ( or whatever it is) 

if I had a choice I’d probably put it earlier, but medical advice and consent of law seems fair from what I know . 

Why do you ask ? 
do you not? 

Abortion is still a criminal act in the UK. But ignoring the technicalities - if you think the current situation is fair and proportionate, why does Danny Kruger want to revisit the issue? Do you think he wants women to have MORE body autonomy, or less?

If his brother Fred is anything to go by all this abortion stuff is the least of our worries.

9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Abortion is still a criminal act in the UK. But ignoring the technicalities - if you think the current situation is fair and proportionate, why does Danny Kruger want to revisit the issue? Do you think he wants women to have MORE body autonomy, or less?

I don’t give a fuck about Kruger.

Why is this all about him?

Weve all offered an opinion mate, you don’t seem to agree with any of them. 

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Abortion is still a criminal act in the UK. But ignoring the technicalities - if you think the current situation is fair and proportionate, why does Danny Kruger want to revisit the issue? Do you think he wants women to have MORE body autonomy, or less?

you ask a lot of questions and want peoples view but don’t answer questions yourself other than saying your views are irrelevant 
Couldn’t give a fuck now what he wants to be honest 

my point is he’s not a fascist for having a different view to you . 

he’s literally in the House of Parliament debating something, you want him to shut up and not say it , yet he’s the fascist ? 
you’ve stated denying women’s body autonomy is fascist . 
you yourself would deny that too after a certain point from what I’ve gathered . 
 

Not sure how it is a criminal act , but sure you’ve got some loophole comment , but you would still allow a woman to have it so that’s irrelevant too. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, fatolive said:

you ask a lot of questions and want peoples view but don’t answer questions yourself other than saying your views are irrelevant 
Couldn’t give a fuck now what he wants to be honest 

my point is he’s not a fascist for having a different view to you . 

he’s literally in the House of Parliament debating something, you want him to shut up and not say it , yet he’s the fascist ? 
you’ve stated denying women’s body autonomy is fascist . 
you yourself would deny that too after a certain point from what I’ve gathered . 
 

Not sure how it is a criminal act , but sure you’ve got some loophole comment , but you would still allow a woman to have it so that’s irrelevant too. 

It doesn't matter. If you can't be bothered looking up the facts, there's no point having this discussion.

Edited June 29, 20224 yr by Cheese

6 minutes ago, Spider said:

I don’t give a fuck about Kruger.

Why is this all about him?

Weve all offered an opinion mate, you don’t seem to agree with any of them. 

Because my original post that kicked off this debate was a video of Kruger stating something in Parliament. Never mind.

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Because my original post that kicked off this debate was a video of Kruger stating something in Parliament. Never mind.

Kruger is a cock.

Is that the debate over?