Politics

[BobyBrno]

9 hours ago, Farrelli said:

BB using the old classic “they all lie”😀

We’ve been over it before but we’ve been over everything before. We’ll probably go over it again. 🥱

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-10/it-was-project-fear-and-it-didnt-work-head-of-remain-campaign-says-economic-dangers-of-brexit-were-exaggerated

[Spider]

11 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

We’ve been over it before but we’ve been over everything before. We’ll probably go over it again. 🥱

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-10/it-was-project-fear-and-it-didnt-work-head-of-remain-campaign-says-economic-dangers-of-brexit-were-exaggerated

Post as many links as you want, we all do and they all back up our position which is why this just goes on and on.

If we use our own personal circumstances, I can catergorically tell you our business has suffered directly as a result of Brexit and still hasn’t recovered to where it should have been.

We watch Irish (former) customers still buying from the Dutch, sailing round our sceptred isle on a weekly basis.

Winners and losers. I just happen to be in an industry that saw more losers.

You, maybe not.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Spider

[BobyBrno]

7 minutes ago, Spider said:

Post as many links as you want, we all do and they all back up our position which is why this just goes on and on.

If we use our own personal circumstances, I can catergorically tell you our business has suffered directly as a result of Brexit and still hasn’t recovered to where it should have been.

We watch Irish (former) customers still buying from the Dutch, sailing round our sceptred isle on a weekly basis.

Winners and losers. I just happen to be in an industry that saw more losers.

You, maybe not.

Despite me saying it’s hit me more than most on here, no one listens. Because I’ve moved on, people think I voted out. I didn’t. Your circumstances are of your own doing. Don’t blame anyone else.

[Farrelli]

10 minutes ago, Spider said:

Post as many links as you want, we all do and they all back up our position which is why this just goes on and on.

If we use our own personal circumstances, I can catergorically tell you our business has suffered directly as a result of Brexit and still hasn’t recovered to where it should have been.

We watch Irish (former) customers still buying from the Dutch, sailing round our sceptred isle on a weekly basis.

Winners and losers. I just happen to be in an industry that saw more losers.

You, maybe not.

Indeed. I would add that most losers are those at the poor end of society or with disabilities who have seen community centres and special work places lose funding that previously came via EU assisted projects.

[Farrelli]

https://wcva.cymru/eu-funding-in-wales-a-legacy-not-to-be-forgotten/
 

 

[Spider]

12 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Despite me saying it’s hit me more than most on here, no one listens. Because I’ve moved on, people think I voted out. I didn’t. Your circumstances are of your own doing. Don’t blame anyone else.

It’s hard to move on when the obstacles are facing you every day and costing you money.

6 years of absolute standstill. I had plans.

People, good people, lost their jobs.

we’re not talking a minor inconvenience here. We’re talking life changing stuff. I’m pleased you’ve overcome your obstacles, truly. But a business that employs 100+ people doesn’t find it easy to replace export customers despite being told it would all be sorted by teatime.

[Mounts Kipper]

7 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

https://wcva.cymru/eu-funding-in-wales-a-legacy-not-to-be-forgotten/
 

 

Isn’t this a case of EU funding ending for these projects and now they have to bid for funding from the UK social fund, that’s how it should be, UK government in control of spending be that Labour or Tory. We then get to decide if we are happy with how & where they spend the money. 

[Not in Crawley]

40 minutes ago, Spider said:

It’s hard to move on when the obstacles are facing you every day and costing you money.

6 years of absolute standstill. I had plans.

People, good people, lost their jobs.

we’re not talking a minor inconvenience here. We’re talking life changing stuff. I’m pleased you’ve overcome your obstacles, truly. But a business that employs 100+ people doesn’t find it easy to replace export customers despite being told it would all be sorted by teatime.

As I keep saying, I don't blame those who voted out - this isn't of anyone's 'own doing' We, as a country, were lied to. Its that simple. Then people put those who lied to us in charge because they lied again saying they were the only ones who had a solution to the problems caused by leaving. Which they didn't. They shouted down any dissenting voices using terms like negativity, anti British until all that could be heard was myopic rhetoric backed up by those who don't want to feel as though they were duped.

Some people say move on as though it's just 'bad thoughts' causing issues. The lack of critical thinking and strategy at the heart of the last two terms of government has been shocking. They won't ever been held to account for this, I'm sure I'll see Rees-Mogg again in the Garrick Club enjoying a fine lunch and we'll see Liz Truss at various state occasions as a former PM and it seems the UK has a Johnson addiction so he's not going anywhere.

Nice to see BB has started the disgruntled Tories next 4 years of moaning about Labour early. Funnily enough, his reading of it isn't bearing fruit. Starmer knows he has to tackle this immediately otherwise its going to haunt this first six months. Tackling the actual criminals means he can sound tough and also work with partners across Europe to start to find legal and workable solutions. His legals expertise will be crucial in this. Be nice when actual grown ups are in charge again and not just journalists with delusions of grandeur.

[Farrelli]

41 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Isn’t this a case of EU funding ending for these projects and now they have to bid for funding from the UK social fund, that’s how it should be, UK government in control of spending be that Labour or Tory. We then get to decide if we are happy with how & where they spend the money. 

Well of course but the point is that EU funding was targeted at socially deprived areas and minorities. The government levelling up programme would be more accurately termed levelling down and has so far failed to get anywhere near the level of the EU funds. All very predictable.

[Mounts Kipper]

Just now, Farrelli said:

Well of course but the point is that EU funding was targeted at socially deprived areas and minorities. The government levelling up programme would be more accurately termed levelling down and has so far failed to get anywhere near the level of the EU funds. All very predictable.

That maybe so…. Your beloved Labour Party will soon have the baton in their hand, I hope and expect that they will do better than the Tories…. Time will tell. 

[Farrelli]

15 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

That maybe so…. Your beloved Labour Party will soon have the baton in their hand, I hope and expect that they will do better than the Tories…. Time will tell. 

I have voted Tory more than labour. The Tories conceived and delivered brexit.  No UK government, be it labour or Tory, will ever replace the EU funding. I do expect labour to distribute what funding there is more fairly though.

[Mounts Kipper]

8 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

I have voted Tory more than labour. The Tories conceived and delivered brexit.  No UK government, be it labour or Tory, will ever replace the EU funding. I do expect labour to distribute what funding there is more fairly though.

The EU distributed back to the UK only a percentage of the money we gave them. It was our money not theirs. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Mounts Kipper

[Farrelli]

7 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The EU distributed back to the UK only a percentage of the money we gave them. It was our money not theirs. 

Wales, Scotland, NI were net beneficiaries. Poorer areas, disabled and minority communities were recognised more favourably.  Now they get much less and devolved governments have much less control on where and how the money is distributed.

[BobyBrno]

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

 

Nice to see BB has started the disgruntled Tories next 4 years of moaning about Labour early. Funnily enough, his reading of it isn't bearing fruit. Starmer knows he has to tackle this immediately otherwise it’s going to haunt this first six months. Tackling the actual criminals means he can sound tough and also work with partners across Europe to start to find legal and workable solutions. His legals expertise will be crucial in this. Be nice when actual grown ups are in charge again and not just journalists with delusions of grandeur.

Well that’s kind of how political debate works.
The plan won’t work because it isn’t working in the EU with its member states. Germany coincidentally has refused to take its quota from Italy and other states are not playing by the rules. Sorry if that sounds like moaning but it’s how I see it. 

[Not in Crawley]

4 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Well that’s kind of how political debate works.
The plan won’t work because it isn’t working in the EU with its member states. Germany coincidentally has refused to take its quota from Italy and other states are not playing by the rules. Sorry if that sounds like moaning but it’s how I see it. 

Then you've read some headlines and not the proposal itself. I suggest you start there.

[Not in Crawley]

The Laura Kussenburg programme about the change of the Conservative on the BBC is an excellent watch. Just shows the level that people who were in charge, simply weren't.

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

The Laura Kussenburg programme about the change of the Conservative on the BBC is an excellent watch. Just shows the level that people who were in charge, simply weren't.

Not seen it yet but intend to. I have no doubt it will show the numpties we had running the country and their ineptitude laid bare.

[Not in Crawley]

4 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Not seen it yet but intend to. I have no doubt it will show the numpties we had running the country and their ineptitude laid bare.

Not so much numpties, but no one had a clue what they had done and what they had to do.

Scary stuff, and shows clearly why we are still in the position we are.

It's a good programme as it's got every key player on, very realistic and very balanced.

[Not in Crawley]

Also Nadine Dorries crying when Johnson pulls out of the leadership election as Give stabbed him in the back is quite the sight.

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, Farrelli said:

Wales, Scotland, NI were net beneficiaries. Poorer areas, disabled and minority communities were recognised more favourably.  Now they get much less and devolved governments have much less control on where and how the money is distributed.

Those areas already get more funding than English poorer areas, free this free that free the other while folk in England have to pay. 

[Not in Crawley]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

Those areas already get more funding than English poorer areas, free this free that free the other while folk in England have to pay. 

Again that's not how funding works.

As I said, if you want to be taken seriously when you say you do understand the systems, it'd be worth demonstrating this in what you write, otherwise its just food for the birds in terms of a coherent argument and worthwhile discussion.

[Mounts Kipper]

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

Again that's not how funding works.

As I said, if you want to be taken seriously when you say you do understand the systems, it'd be worth demonstrating this in what you write, otherwise its just food for the birds in terms of a coherent argument and worthwhile discussion.

When I say funding I’m including total government spend not just the UK funding replacement for EU money.

As an example the Barnett formula used in Scotland means they receive more per head than England. 

Ultimately I prefer the UK government to be in control of spend per region. 

[frank_spencer]

35 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

When I say funding I’m including total government spend not just the UK funding replacement for EU money.

As an example the Barnett formula used in Scotland means they receive more per head than England. 

Ultimately I prefer the UK government to be in control of spend per region. 

You do realise the UK government had a say in how EU money was spent?

The removal of the EU pot of money hasn't meant that the shortfall has been met by the UK government.

Whilst being in the EU some money went to projects in Poland and some went to the UK as well as all the other member nations. It's all part of being in a union

[Not in Crawley]

31 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

When I say funding I’m including total government spend not just the UK funding replacement for EU money.

As an example the Barnett formula used in Scotland means they receive more per head than England. 

Ultimately I prefer the UK government to be in control of spend per region. 

I know - but again, you've mixed funding and then thrown in the barnet formula which doesn't relate to the larger EU infastructure projects that are being discusssed. Then again going on about the government being in control of spending per region - which as you were told last week it always had in relation to EU funding. You keep saying you understand how the EU and funding strcutures in the UK work, but then contradict yourself with what you write.

There's a really good, and quite short book called the The European Union: A Citizen's Guide. Its not pro or anti the EU, it outlines both pros and cons but its great at giving an overiew to laymen such as ourselves about the workings, structure and funding.

 

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

You do realise the UK government had a say in how EU money was spent?

The removal of the EU pot of money hasn't meant that the shortfall has been met by the UK government.

Whilst being in the EU some money went to projects in Poland and some went to the UK as well as all the other member nations. It's all part of being in a union

Yes, well some of it, we didn’t get back what we gave them…. I’ll keep repeating myself, I prefer our government to choose where we spend it rather than just having a say in where it’s spent.