bristol_wanderer

Salford, you make fair points but whether right or wrong I hate reading posts like this from our own fans. Because this is what the media and the big clubs want us to be saying to each other. My view: In a competitive industry controlled by money, the league table should be easy to predict. Something like Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle, Man City, Everton, Tottenham, Aston Villa, West Ham, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Birmingham, Charlton, West Brom, Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, Fulham, Portsmouth. That is based on football income. Blackburn, Wigan, Fulham and Portsmouth all have rich backers (or leagacy of) giving them artificial wealth meaning we should be erm bottom. The reason we are not is beacause: 1. We have better sports science and scouting than anybody else. 2. We therefore have a niche of getting more out of older players that the richer clubs deem past their sell by date. 3. Sam's tatics allied to fitness mean that a team of less talented players can nullify more talented opposition. 4. We are tryting to build a youth policy and have some early fruits from that. We have defied the odds for three years now. The minute we try and compete on the same basis as the rest then you fall back to your natural position, which for us is about mid table Championship. See Norwich, Leicester et al. We would be media darlings of course, and would perhaps clear the debt by selling our better players as they see they can't achieve success here. Would we then have 22000-25000 marvelling at our style of play? Our only chance is to keep defying the odds long enough to get some of the tv and success money that enable us to get better players and be more entertaining with our current successful tatics, thereby enticing new fans and catching up some of our richer counterparts and thus creating a positive spiral.

" Fair enough. My point is that when Sam took over we were selling our best players and were ??25 million in debt. Since I first attended in 1978, we have probably been technically bankrupt for a significant number of those. So now to be in the top 7 of the top league, thinking in terms of challenging for the Champions League is a minor miracle. Sam could have left for Newcastle, Stelios for Liverpool/Man City, all infinitely bigger clubs than ourselves. Yet we have kept them all. From the apparent mentality of PG, Sam and the staff at the club its clear they will not settle for being a mid table premiership team. They want major success and trophies, and it is again a miracle that there is a fair chance that Sam will stay here for a few years and try to achieve this. I don't mean to insult anybody but some of the posts above do refer to our 'negative style of play' and have a general tone of doom and gloom. I understand the sentiment of this thread, but I feel its better that likes of ourselves and core fans on here take the initiative and try to do something positive about it. By the way 'alliterative cascade' I like that!

No for me. Where would he play in our 4-3-3/4-5-1? We need a hard working physical centre forward, and two industrious preferably quick players on the wings. Fowler is none of these. There's no evidence that Sam would change his formation. We have Mexico's record goalscorer and we haven't accomodated him. But the way, can anybody find any evidence that Sam has said he wants him? All I've seen is he has said that its up to the board to see if we could afford him and that its not his decision.

Renew. I'll be preparing the vehicle for another punishing schedule next year.

The club can do no more. We have as much success as we can expect given the relative financial power of the club, the owner, chairman and manager are BWFC through and through, we have a fine stadium and respect amongst the football world. Ask yourself - why are other teams so bothered about our style of play? If its that bad then they should be happy as it should only strengthen their position. But no, they blab on about at every opportunity, because they know that in this competitive industry, they can't rely on their multi million pound, highly paid players to beat little BWFC, they need an edge over us, and so resort to insults in the press. There is some truth in it, we can be a hoof and hope team, but more often than not, particularly at home our style is as attractive as anyone else. Unfortunately some of our own fans on this site are falling for the hype. As for the 'buzz' it is purely in the hands of ourselves. The club cannot supply a buzz or buy a buzz, its up to us to create one. Coming on here moaning, or not renewing season tickets, or threatening not to renew does no one any good. Positive action is what is required. Ideas: 1. Form Bolton Ultras, tell the club, ask for a part of the ground to be the Ultras home. 2. Ask the club to open one the banqueting suites to the fans before a game. I know for a fact the club would consider this. 3. How about some ideas about songs. Our range of chants are severely limited. Arrange to meet up somewhere and have a good old BWFC sing song over a few beers. Any bigger and better ideas? All it needs is someone to co-ordinate, and a bit of enthusiasm. Rocket Science it aint. Football has evolved, society in general has evolved, and so the nature of the BWFC buzz and all who sail in it must also evolve.

Was last nights away following that bad? I was at the back and it looked about 800-1000 to me. Ask yourself - how many would Brum bring to our place on a Tuesday night? not much more if any I reckon.

I suspect Sam will play Hunt and Jaidi, for OB and Bruno. I'd rest Okocha for Diouf. Okocha may not be effective in a second game in three days and we need workrate and solidity against a poor but spirited team fighting for their lives. Also Faye and Jaidi would make us an even bigger threat on set pieces, and against Chelsea they looked vulnerable on these. So Jussi Hunt TBH Jaidi Bruno Faye Speed Nolan Stelios Davies Diouf

Think West Brom's slightly further though its easier to get to (just straight up the M5). You exiled in Bristol also?

Me. At 85 miles nearest game of the season!

Well we take a lot of stick about this, but I think our play against Middlesbrough and West Ham (league) in particular is something to be proud of. Sam gets each player as fit and motivated as possible, with the result that each of them are all action for 90 minutes. Personally, I think its awesome and spectacular to watch. Shame we don't have a bit more talent and quality near goal to finish off some of the situations we create. Having said that our playing style has been better since Jay Jay took over Campo's role, but IMHO that has left our defence a bit more exposed particularly against Boro, even though Ben Haim and Jaidi had off days. So we need to pick the right style for the right game, but nevertheless I believe we deserve credit for the quality of recent performances, but will we get it?

Stelios is 31, 32 in July. Unlikely a successful club would come in for him at that age, plus he's got 2 years left on his contract so we'd want a decent fee.

Threads like this give our support a tired old feel. Sounds like a lot of us have left their football supporting energy back in the days when we were shite but we had our traditional old ground with its proud history. After all if you wanted success for your team then there were plenty of better options than BWFC back in the day, but success isn't why you picked BWFC. So now unprecendented success isn't the be all and end all, and much more emphasis is placed on periphal factors like beer, atmosphere, and the crack. Looks like our future is in the hands of those much maligned JCL's and the next generation. Apparently the club have 10000 junior whites, so there should be a new wave coming through in the next 5-10 years, and combined with existing support will hopefully enable our fanbase to grow.

No problem with people expressing their gripes, but this is about the fourth or fifth thread I have seen going on about the same thing. And it's just moaning, very little ideas of how to make things better, so it's not achieving anything. Surely this is an opportunity to think of ways in which the club and fans can improve things. My point is that we are all BWFC supporters, and want to see our club being successful, and playing to large vibrant crowds, don't we?

Rather than constantly spouting off about the negatives of the Reebok, has anybody got any constructive ideas about improving things. If there are no constructive ideas, then what's the point of threads like this? If you're looking for an excuse not to go, then don't go. No wonder other clubs fans think we are the worst supporters around. Reading moaning threads like this, when the staff of the club are working their balls off for BWFC, to achieve unprecendented success is an insult.

Our wage bill is about ??19m - ??20m and is one of the lowest in the Prem. Do you want one of us to find out yours for you?

What you should now know is that Mr Pardew is a bit of a hypocrite (I missed Katan of the previous list), and he has no right to criticise Arsenal who are in a different league to WHU in terms of success, and as well as having Cole and Campbell, have brought through Pennant, Bentley, Upson, Sidwell etc. etc. for ultimate use of other PL clubs and currently have promising English youngsters Gilbert, Walcott, Hoyte from their Academy.

So, what you are saying is that king of home grown development Mr Pardew has spent substantial amounts of money on Foreigners....

Hmmm, a bit of a selective list that. What about: Benayoun - ??2.5m Gabbidon/Collins - ??3m Repka (just left I know but part of the team this year) - ??5.5m Clarke - ??250,000 Etherington - ??1.5m As Casino says, stick around, you could just learn something.

I agree that the club could do more. They could, for example, issue loyalty points on a basis that rewards attendance at the less attractive home games and use the points as a basis for tciket alllocation preference. But isn't there more the fans can do also. The team/club are doing more than we have the right to expect on the pitch, we have a manager who loves the club and the fans, and whatever is said about him, a committed and astute chairman. The fans cannot have a gripe with anything to do with the club, perhaps with the exception of the cost of games, but that is football's issue rather than the club. Surely us, the fans should grasp the mettle, and start to conciously create an atmosphere worthy of the performances on the pitch?

Yeah, but after the football problems of the 80s I don't think there is any apetite by those who run the game to allow standing in this country in the near future. I don't see why there can't be a good atmosphere at the Reebok. Last season there was some good ones, and a few this. To improve it surely it just needs the ones who like to sing to go somewhere near the scoreboard or north lower and erm.. sing. We can go further by looking at the likes of Marseilles and forming groups and orchestrating it a bit more. I'm sure the club would be supportive as long as they were convinced there wouldn't be any bother.

There seems to be a desire here to have a better atmos at the Reebok so why don't we create one? It's in our hands. The people on this board care enough about BWFC to spend time posting on here, as well as going to the games, so we should be the ones to start it. Any of those who go under scoreboard or north lower care to form the Bolton Ultra's?? Lets turn the Reebok atmos into the Stade Velodrome of the Premiership. Pining for Burnden is pointless. Totally agree about having a supporters bar near the gruond. Everyone would gain from it, fans, club and team due to better atmosphere.

I think that illustrates my point Smiffs. I don't know when you started supporting BWFC but I started in 1978 and from there it went all down hill to the point that my aspirations were limited to the odd win against local rivals and the folorn hope of a trunaround in our fortunes and a push for promotion. But these days are different and I presume more akin to the days of the 50's, tales of which I was brought up on. Now we CAN win major competitions and that is our aim. And, speaking personally its now a different mindset and not just about winning the odd match as the underdog. I can't personally imagine the feelings that the fans of successful clubs feel when they see their team on an open top bus driving through streets of euphoric fans, or the feeling of winning a final at a major venue. But once they have experienced that then I am sure it is those feelings that drive them to follow their team when they might otherwise not.

Bristol will be represented.

Yeah, good post Salford, this is indeed a new era now, and its only early days in that era, though we are vulnerable to it ending very quickly, particularly if Sam leaves. I think the euro away days this season have bonded some fans to the club, as they have been special days, particularly plovdiv (imho). I think after that word spread and now there is a hardcore 4000 (possibly more)prepared to travel thousands of miles to watch BWFC, something I wouldn't have believed a couple of years ago. I think we need similar 'special days' domestically i.e. winning a domestic trophy or even winning a big televised match against Man U for example, or even Marseille away, and then the euphoria involved will again bond new fans to the club. We just gotta hope Sam doesn't get the England job, for he appears to have the loyalty to the club and the ability to win us trophies.

Agreed, but back then a big cup tie every now and again was the limit of our expectations. Now we have a realistic change of winning these competitions. Thing is we probably don't get excited about that because most of us haven't known what its like to win anything and therefore it doesn't capture the imagination. We sre still looking for the awesome amosphere of an underdog playing a giant, but at the same time we are expecting a good performance and a win. So the atmosphere gets caught somewhere in between. Agreed cost is a factor and football is pricing out many people, but that wasn't so much the issue last night given the prices.