Globetrotter

I'm not sure they would replace him if he went back for good. I reckon he was brought in when they thought Cahill would go and that is why he has been shoe horned in at RB when Cahill stayed ... Just mi thoughts like ..

The more relevant question is if you could find a bank to lend us money, what would they charge and how quickly would they want their money paying back - in full? We only pay interest on his loan and there is no official deadline for paying back the whole amount. Therefore, I think he is entitled to charge more than he would get for sticking it in the bank.

Eddie Davies is in a catch 22 position with us, if he calls in his money we would be lucky to get together 25% of it through a player fire sale and this would lead to certain Relegation and he wouldn't get the rest of his money back. And that is the only crumb of comfort. Whilst he drawing his 5% as others have said he should be happy enough. It's a kind of reverse of the old saying that if you owe the bank ?1m the bank owns you but if you owe the bank ?100m you own the bank ...

Over ?20m so I agree to a point. But some of that will presumably be recovered. In the same period our wages have gone up nearly ?30m per year and revenue by just over half of that ..

Most of that was funded by the sales of Anelka (profit of about 6 mil) and Nolan (profit of 4 mill). Our net spend on transfers for the past 10 yrs runs at about 3 mill per season so I don't think this is the problem. Out of control wages and a hotel that makes no money are more of an issue.

I think it is now clear that it has gone up, from 93 million to 110 million. We have had another fabulous year where we have made a paper loss of 26 million (down from 35 million loss we made last year). Our net cash overspend last year was 17 million pounds so we have had to borrow more money from Ted. And on that bombshell ....

The NBV of the players is stated at 19 million which is probably more realistic. Where they got their estimate of 61 million from is anyone's guess.

that loss of 14 mill on player transfers is probably Cahill's value being written off? The actual trading was more or less b/e main points i can see are yet another operating loss of (7.6 mill) and as pointed out an overall increase in debt. we are now in the 100 mill high club ... October - the month that just keep on giving ...

just skim read the accounts and it seems that this exactly what it is - another loss of 26 mill ... apologies for my direct response to your earlier post, I was completely wrong. Fack me this looks bad ... I will wait until somebody better qualified than me sifts throws and tells us what the upshot is but it dont look too good to me ...

I'd be pleasantly surpised if we have made an actual operating profit of 9 million. More likely an accrual adjustment I would think, some cash came in that we wrote off or we did not have to pay for something that we had allowed for - maybe some of it Meggo's salary that we allowed for etc. I thought we are only paying interest on our main debt with the kettle man? If so, it cant be the main debt reduction. Be interesting to see anyway ..

Been trying to find anything relating to our 2011 accounts and can't see owt. Also, can't find reference by SSN to the accounts either ...

I must admit that I have not heard the term retained debt before but I am sure that what it refers to is more what DBP says. Our Operating loss was 35 mill last year and this can be shown as a kind of accounting accrual (not exactly cash). A reduction to 26 mill would suggest our accruals (or losses carried forward) have changed (positively) by 9 mill so the total losses carried forward is 26 mill from the previous year ... The 85 mill owed to Ted is entirely separate and is basically how the business is financed. That is, Ted has lent us 85 mill and so this is what we still owe him and that plus some small bank loans makes up the total debt of 90 mill plus.

That would mean offering Chungy a new contract now and if he shows no interest we would put him in the shop window (openly) in January. Assuming he was fit, if Gartside offered him out in Jan there would be a much longer thread than this in response. "Lack of ambition, how can we get out of a dog fight if we sell our best players ...." The amazing thing for me and I guess all of us(putting all club loyalty to one side)is that none of the main clubs put a more than a token effort in to get Cahill. The logical one for me was Liverpool as part of the N'Gog deal but they went for another option, Arsenal as we know when for the German head on a stick. It even has me wondering whether the release fee that Megson stuck in his contract has given us all an unrealistic view of just how much he is worth.

I am pretty sure that Swansea will outpass most teams this season. I have only seen them 3 or 4 times but I am impressed with them. Even against City (when they eventually got battered) you could see that they are confident and competent on the ball. Of course that plus our ability to stand off opponents better than anyone else in the league meant there was only ever going to be one winner when analysing the passing stats. Even our 'Championship' players can close opponents down if instructed to. So they either have not been told or they have taken no notice ... BTW - who else noticed that when Bale scored yesterday (2 touches after the goalie launched it?) it was wonderful and typical Tottenham goal from one of the league's most entertaining teams?

SJM for one, earlier in this thread. cant be arsed re-checking but sure there are others ...

I can't understand how people think that somebody at the club 'fucked up big time' by not selling Cahill in the summer. It was stated by many on here at the time that our efforts to sell him were starting to look looked desperate. We can't have it both ways. The simple fact is that all the big boys knew about his contract status, they knew we wanted to sell and they knew he was likely that he would want to leave. Yet, we only got one bid - that was way below our valuation. Would we have been saying that 'somebody at the club did a great job' if we sold him for 6 mil or whatever it was? Fact is, he was available and nobody matched the club's valuation. In my book that is not fucking it up.

BTW - apologies for bringing Soun(n)ess into the discussion. I was intending to support the point made by someone else that O'Neil might be a tad overrated. Didn't intend to put him forward for the Bolton job ....

There is no doubt that we have been unlucky with injuries and I am surehave would have a few more points with Holden and CYL. But, when the going gets tough you see what a manager is made of and I don't like what I see. I never believe just firing the manager is the answer but at the moment the signs are that he has no clue how to get us out of this. I am just about ready to say 'that's it' with him but can't bring myself to yet .... If OC does not look to get help from outside then our only hope is that one of the senior players steps up and pulls them together. If not we will be without a leader or any tactical know how until they replace him and that can't be allowed to go on til Xmas.

I stand by the fact that O'neil would not come as he will see bigger jobs for himself in the future. He, Mclaren and Hughes all left their last jobs due to 'lack of the club's ambition'. Today, I reckon there is only O'Neil who will be thinking that he can still pick his next job. So, maybe the other 2 would come. I would like Hughes. If nothing else he would put some fight back into the team and has done well elsewhere with limited resources. On the issue of O'Neil and if he is overrated, there could be something in that. If you compare his record to Sounness they are similar. In fact I think Souness' record is better as he won a trophy overseas. Not many club banging his door down ....

What City aren't saying though is that they themselves downgraded the charge which led directly to the PFA changing their stance. I heard Taylor and 5 live the other day and he explained clearly that City are entitled to throw the book at him for refusing to play. This was his stance at the start when he represented Tevez. City made is clear at the start that this was the charge so I don't see why they are so surprised at the change of stance from the PFA when they themselves changed the charge. The two week fine limit is one negotiated between the clubs and PFA so really Taylor is only doing his job and I don't see how there is a conflict of interest.

It's just so unfair to be paid half a mil per year trying to keep these clowns up .... Let's get real. The Bolton job is an attractive one for 99% of managers out there - not O'Neil (I thought that was a joke when someone first suggested it but listening to the wireless etc there are actually people who think we could get him ...). Fwiw I can't think of a replacement either but then I would not of picked FSA either all those years ago. From what i see at our club and others fans are usually the worst placed to judge who should be a manager.

Following this start to the season (results and performance) if Coyle can't see for himself that he needs a higher calibre of back up then he should be sacked for that alone. Regardless of next week's result it is clear he is not up to it yet and his back room staff aren't either. You can't impose an assistant on him against his will so I am just hoping he wakes up and smells the fucking coffee. Otherwise, for me, with regret ....

We need to widen our appeal In Bolton before we worry about the middle east. Even when we had crowds of 5k I don't recall seeing so many locals being so open about their support for Man U and others .... Any PDA for another club within a BL post code should be met with a sound kicking and / or being escorted to the train station ....

Didn't go myself so refraining from comment in the main but it is a good result and so credit where it is due, big relief to get another 3 points. From what I have seen N'Gog seems to be the real deal, and we should have enough to be ok. Just hope OC grows into the role. Anyho - life is about celebrating small victories so well done boys you certainly made my weekend

This whole discussion highlights much of what is wrong with sport today. Boxing has been ruined by individual fighters having deals with networks which often means the best fights don't happen (and when they do you struggle to find the bastard channel that shows it)and the proliferation of titles now on show. As someone said earlier, think about those founder members of the PL who now have not a pot to piss in .. I don't feel smug about being part of the PL gravy train the same that I can't get over excited about the CEO of a US organisation (Liverpool) spouting off about what is a fair slice of the cake. As old red nose himself said recently 'if you shake hands with the devil ....' FWIW - of course Liverpool are still a massive draw globally, I don't understand why but I see it first hand. I don't recall seeing any Chelsea fans in Benelux, Scandinavia, USA or Asia. I am sure they are there and Citeh fans soon as well but it is still UTD and Liverpool. I'm sure there are as many scouse fans that are embarrassed by his comments as there are Bolton fans who remember chipping into the bucket shakers begging bowl thinking 'there but for the grace ....'