SSN have just stated that the club has reduced its 'retained debt' by ?9.3M to just over ?26M. Not sure what this means exactly, but considering the financial discussions in other threads, it prehaps shows the direction the club is heading.

Can't help reading into this that any transfer funds would have to be generated by further player sales.

Does anybody really believe ED has invested 100M?

 

Somebodies making some serious brass off BWFC & it wouldn't take an accountant to work out who they are.

 

Money begats money, It's just a case of moving figures around paper, though there is some serious piss poor financial management going on including our 'alternative revenue streams'

I don't understand why he didn't put it all into Icelandic banks in the early noughties, or even invested it in the Stock market. It'd have been a lot safer there

Does anybody really believe ED has invested 100M?

 

 

Yes, I do.

 

 

 

Somebodies making some serious brass off BWFC & it wouldn't take an accountant to work out who they are.

 

 

The players.

Yes, I do.

 

 

 

The players.

 

 

Well that's the obvious one out of the way

i think halfbaked would've been a better choice of name

Not everybody has to sign up for the PG & ED love in

Do you really think Eddie Davies is a cunt who's skimming off the club? Honestly?

No, I think he's a business man that has & is making a good return on his investment. I just don't believe his investment is 100M

No, I think he's a business man that has & is making a good return on his investment. I just don't believe his investment is 100M

 

So where has the ?100M come from?

 

Just interested like, as you seem to be saying that the Auditors have signed off a set of accounts for the last 5 years that don't report the truth??

That's the 100M pound question, isn't it?

 

I wish I knew & I'm certainly not sure to say, however, when a man had a reported 60M net worth in the 2009 times rich list, I certainly start asking myself questions & am looking for answers

 

Some of the things I'm reading, I'm not liking.

It's in the times, it must be true.

Aye but he inherited a stadium and hotel worth around 60m and a club with less than 30m debt when he paid fuck all for it 15 years ago. If he enjoys an above average return on all his investments, I'm struggling to understand how he's done badly out of it.

 

 

Do you really think its worth ?60m? The stadium only has value if there is a team to play in it, and the revenue stream off the back of it is far from secure (low matchday income, high costs, huge potential drop in 'other' revenue if we get relegated)

 

I certainly wouldn't want to put my name to a ?60m valuation.

I really dont worry about the 110 million debt, the reason being Davies has been in charge 10 years the first 5 years we had approx 50 million debt which ED was netting interest at 10% thats thats 5 million x 5 = 25 million, the next 3 years we had approx 70 million of debt again I think the deal was 10% thats approx 21 million, the last 2 years approx 100 million of debt at 5% that another 10 million, in total and this is rough guess Eddie has taken 56 million in interest payments, add to that he takes a cut of transfers, over the last 10 years we have sold a good number of players for decent amounts I have know idea what % he takes but if it was 5% that could easily be another 5-10 million, so lets say minimum of 5 million that lot adds up to around 60 million he has taken back, the squad has been valued at 61.5 million that maybe optimistic but I would say we would easily achieve 40-50 million and that figure is based on getting nothing for Cahil, as I said earlier Eddie Davies and his money men have all bases covered, a large part of our debt has already been paid backto Eddie Davies, quite clever really and were all panicking about the 110 headline figure, in reality most of it is already recovered by E.D. Before any one questions my figures there just an indication of what has happened and obviously not exactly accurate but close enough to give an indication of the state of play.

Edited November 2, 201114 yr by Mounts Kipper

I really dont worry about the 110 million debt, the reason being Davies has been in charge 10 years the first 5 years we had approx 50 million debt which ED was netting interest at 10% thats thats 5 million x 5 = 25 million, the next 3 years we had approx 70 million of debt again I think the deal was 10% thats approx 21 million, the last 2 years approx 100 million of debt at 5% that another 10 million, in total and this is rough guess Eddie has taken 56 million in interest payments, add to that he takes a cut of transfers, over the last 10 years we have sold a good number of players for decent amounts I have know idea what % he takes but if it was 5% that could easily be another 5-10 million, so lets say minimum of 5 million that lot adds up to around 60 million he has taken back, the squad has been valued at 61.5 million that maybe optimistic but I would say we would easily achieve 40-50 million and that figure is based on getting nothing for Cahil, as I said earlier Eddie Davies and his money men have all bases covered, a large part of our debt has already been paid backto Eddie Davies, quite clever really and were all panicking about the 110 headline figure, in reality most of it is already recovered by E.D. Before any one questions my figures there just an indication of what has happened and obviously not exactly accurate but close enough to give an indication of the state of play.

 

That was the basis of my discussion though I didn't really have a point and yours is a valid conclusion (as opposed to one of ripping off the club). I do worry about how the scenario might change if we're relegated but then again, we've seen much worse in bygone years.

I agree that you've outlined a likely scenario, Mounts, and I'm sure there's a certain amount of cross-company tax 'manipulation' and creative accounting going on (all perfectly legal, of course).......

 

....... but on paper (& I expect, legally) BWFC still owes ED ?100m+ of loans - doesn't it ?

This will have to re-paid or formally written off at some stage.

I agree that you've outlined a likely scenario, Mounts, and I'm sure there's a certain amount of cross-company tax 'manipulation' and creative accounting going on (all perfectly legal, of course).......

 

....... but on paper (& I expect, legally) BWFC still owes ED ?100m+ of loans - doesn't it ?

This will have to re-paid or formally written off at some stage.

 

ED owes ED ?100m+

ED is Paying ED ?5m+ a year to keep it there.

If ED were to sell, he would want to be repaid in full or, if he is very comfortable with the next ownership, might perhaps agree to writing a proportion off.

So all the money from the interest,

player transfers etc is in an account somewhere ready to

pay off the debt anytime Eddie

wants. Smart.

ED owes ED ?100m+

ED is Paying ED ?5m+ a year to keep it there.

 

So ED owes ED ?100m and BWFC have not overspent anything in the past 10 years ?

 

Wonderful news !

Just love that parallel universe.

So ED owes ED ?100m and BWFC have not overspent anything in the past 10 years ?Wonderful news !

Just love that parallel universe.

 

I think that is not too far from the truth.

So ED owes ED ?100m and BWFC have not overspent anything in the past 10 years ?

 

Wonderful news !

Just love that parallel universe.

 

Assets he now owns for his investment.....

Freehold of the Reebok / Hotel / Euxton / Lostock Academy

playing squad

4x parachute payments worse case

and he has been getting 10% interest (more recently 5%) ROI

Assets he now owns for his investment.....

Freehold of the Reebok / Hotel / Euxton / Lostock Academy

playing squad

4x parachute payments worse case

and he has been getting 10% interest (more recently 5%) ROI

 

Do we know if he owns the freehold? Would he get planning to develop the land at Euxton or Lostock?

 

Also who else would lend to us?

I really dont worry about the 110 million debt, the reason being Davies has been in charge 10 years the first 5 years we had approx 50 million debt which ED was netting interest at 10% thats thats 5 million x 5 = 25 million, the next 3 years we had approx 70 million of debt again I think the deal was 10% thats approx 21 million, the last 2 years approx 100 million of debt at 5% that another 10 million, in total and this is rough guess Eddie has taken 56 million in interest payments, add to that he takes a cut of transfers, over the last 10 years we have sold a good number of players for decent amounts I have know idea what % he takes but if it was 5% that could easily be another 5-10 million, so lets say minimum of 5 million that lot adds up to around 60 million he has taken back, the squad has been valued at 61.5 million that maybe optimistic but I would say we would easily achieve 40-50 million and that figure is based on getting nothing for Cahil, as I said earlier Eddie Davies and his money men have all bases covered, a large part of our debt has already been paid backto Eddie Davies, quite clever really and were all panicking about the 110 headline figure, in reality most of it is already recovered by E.D. Before any one questions my figures there just an indication of what has happened and obviously not exactly accurate but close enough to give an indication of the state of play.

 

Great post and it explains the logic of ED's investment - he is still owed ?110m "capital" and it's how if ever he recovers that we'll never know until it happens - i suspect he's probably got more return than he expected and invested more than he expected thanks to an 11 year uninterrupted stint in the prem - the big issue still remains with spiralling wages and dwindling transfer cash coming in where we get future capital for investment or plugging losses that concerns me - ultimately it will hurt in the reducing quality of the playing squad

I really dont worry about the 110 million debt, the reason being Davies has been in charge 10 years the first 5 years we had approx 50 million debt which ED was netting interest at 10% thats thats 5 million x 5 = 25 million, the next 3 years we had approx 70 million of debt again I think the deal was 10% thats approx 21 million, the last 2 years approx 100 million of debt at 5% that another 10 million, in total and this is rough guess Eddie has taken 56 million in interest payments, add to that he takes a cut of transfers, over the last 10 years we have sold a good number of players for decent amounts I have know idea what % he takes but if it was 5% that could easily be another 5-10 million, so lets say minimum of 5 million that lot adds up to around 60 million he has taken back, the squad has been valued at 61.5 million that maybe optimistic but I would say we would easily achieve 40-50 million and that figure is based on getting nothing for Cahil, as I said earlier Eddie Davies and his money men have all bases covered, a large part of our debt has already been paid backto Eddie Davies, quite clever really and were all panicking about the 110 headline figure, in reality most of it is already recovered by E.D. Before any one questions my figures there just an indication of what has happened and obviously not exactly accurate but close enough to give an indication of the state of play.

 

 

Thankyou Mounts, that's the general conclusion I'm getting towards, at no point did I say he was ripping off the club, some just infered it from my comments.

 

His remit to Garty was... 'don't lose my money'..... which he hasn't. He's made money and helped to keep us where we are. However, he hasn't invested 100M & hasn't lost money. Having assets also means he can borrow on those assets at x%, loan it x%+ y ensuring no losses. It's basic modern financial business. Don't forget the 3.6M 'arrangement fee' charged from moving his 10% interest to 5% instead.

 

While he's there we're laughing, when he sells on he's laughing...... but seriously don't think this 100M has come out of his arse pocket & he's some sort of messiah. He's a business man first & foremost.

 

So from my previous post, as stated, people are making money from BWFC. The obvious ones are the players, but they're far from alone

Thankyou Mounts, that's the general conclusion I'm getting towards, at no point did I say he was ripping off the club, some just infered it from my comments.

 

His remit to Garty was... 'don't lose my money'..... which he hasn't. He's made money and helped to keep us where we are. However, he hasn't invested 100M & hasn't lost money. Having assets also means he can borrow on those assets at x%, loan it x%+ y ensuring no losses. It's basic modern financial business. Don't forget the 3.6M 'arrangement fee' charged from moving his 10% interest to 5% instead.

 

While he's there we're laughing, when he sells on he's laughing...... but seriously don't think this 100M has come out of his arse pocket & he's some sort of messiah. He's a business man first & foremost.

 

So from my previous post, as stated, people are making money from BWFC. The obvious ones are the players, but they're far from alone

 

I did not know about the arrangement fee so you can add that to the money E.D. has already recieved in interest payments and the percentage he makes from each transfer, the million dollar question is what is Eddie going to do when he decides to sell the club, will he write the debt off? or sell the club for a nominal fee with the new owners promising to clear the debt? I suppose its all guess work, thankfully according to Gartside he is still committed to BWFC and recently spent a few million on the academy, the longer were in the premier league the more money Eddie will recieve in interest payments, hopefully we can stay up for a few more years while we try to reduce our outgoings to match our income.