Politics

[Mounts Kipper]

31 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

If the imports don't comply to the standards they don't get in, it's quite simple. 

 

So we comply to EU standards when we export to EU, products purchased from USA won’t go through U.K. to EU anyhow, not sure what I failed to grasp, equally not sure what your original post was supposed to convey as US food products clearly are sold in EU but only ones that comply. Nothing to see here except your negativity and anti Brexit head wobble. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Salford Trotter]

7 minutes ago, kent_white said:

But they would comply to the standards? Unless we decide to change our standards.

if they are currently being imported into the EU then it then they are compliant of course. If they don't comply then they can't be imported.

[Salford Trotter]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

So we comply to EU standards when we export to EU, products purchased from USA won’t go through U.K. to EU anyhow, not sure what I failed to grasp, equally not sure what your original post was supposed to convey as US food products clearly are sold in EU but only ones that comply. Nothing to see here. 

going round in circles as usual with you...read it for yourself

https://trade.ec.europa.eu/tradehelp/

 

[Mounts Kipper]

55 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

going round in circles as usual with you...read it for yourself

https://trade.ec.europa.eu/tradehelp/

 

Not sure what I’m supposed to reading, once we leave if we chose to export  to EU then we must at least reach their standards. What’s so difficult about that?  Just like any other country that does export to the EU who’s not an EU member. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Salford Trotter]

This is about the US not complying with EU standards on some of their animal welfare/food preparation hygiene so the UK can't import those US products and expect to have complete free trade with the EU on those categories. My original point was that the US will demand that they have unfettered access to our food market and we can't do both

 

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Salford Trotter

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Stuff coming into the UK isn't going to be exported to Europe. 

So long as proper traceability remains in place, anything we produce, that meets standards will be fine. The systems we currently have are in-depth and stringent. Arguably too stringent at times.

There may be unscrupulous folk that might try to pass poorer quality stuff off as being suitable for export, but that occasionally happens anyhow- horse meat scandal for instance. Crooks always looking for an easy payout.

That doesn't preclude us from currently exporting though.

Personally, I'd like top quality stuff to continue to come here, but if chlorinated chicken does come in for example, until it's proven to be dodgy, and so long as it's properly labelled as such, then that's a consumer choice.

 

[Salford Trotter]

49 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Stuff coming into the UK isn't going to be exported to Europe. 

So long as proper traceability remains in place, anything we produce, that meets standards will be fine. The systems we currently have are in-depth and stringent. Arguably too stringent at times.

There may be unscrupulous folk that might try to pass poorer quality stuff off as being suitable for export, but that occasionally happens anyhow- horse meat scandal for instance. Crooks always looking for an easy payout.

That doesn't preclude us from currently exporting though.

Personally, I'd like top quality stuff to continue to come here, but if chlorinated chicken does come in for example, until it's proven to be dodgy, and so long as it's properly labelled as such, then that's a consumer choice.

 

the system does not work that way.  I have worked in the food industry for 35 years alongside  colleagues who source raw materials from all over the world so I have a good appreciation of how these things work though not being directly involved on a day to day basis.   

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said:

the system does not work that way.  I have worked in the food industry for 35 years alongside  colleagues who source raw materials from all over the world so I have a good appreciation of how these things work though not being directly involved on a day to day basis.   

So are we saying that because we might agree to import chlorinated chicken from the US (for example) - that the EU won't buy chickens from us (which comply with their standards - and are actually slightly higher) in case someone tries to palm off some chlorinated chicken as being UK standard and tried to sell in in Europe? 

This chicken will be better travelled than I am!

[Salford Trotter]

6 minutes ago, kent_white said:

So are we saying that because we might agree to import chlorinated chicken from the US (for example) - that the EU won't buy chickens from us (which comply with their standards - and are actually slightly higher) in case someone tries to palm off some chlorinated chicken as being UK standard and tried to sell in in Europe? 

This chicken will be better travelled than I am!

The UK wouldn't buy chicken from the US in reality and if they did i doubt the EU would allow their member states to buy chicken related food from the UK unless there were cast iron guarantees on provenance. It could inadvertently end up in a ready meal or a tin of soup so the traceability is crucial. At Heinz we called our supply chain integrity process 'field to fork' priding ourselves on knowing exactly which farmers we bought our vegetables from. All the food safety in the UK is overseen by the FSA with further verification via the BRC accreditation process which ensure food processing factories adhere to the rules 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said:

the system does not work that way.  I have worked in the food industry for 35 years alongside  colleagues who source raw materials from all over the world so I have a good appreciation of how these things work though not being directly involved on a day to day basis.   

I know you worked in that industry- Roberts bakery cropped up one time iirc.

I understand that point; though it's slightly different to the one I (and Kent) are making.

A product fully conforming to EU standards will be just that.

Compounding a product still needs verification now. It would just necessitate that any non EU approved ingredients that may be allowed here, aren't incorporated in products for export.

That must apply to any one outside the eu currently exporting to it.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

16 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

The UK wouldn't buy chicken from the US in reality and if they did i doubt the EU would allow their member states to buy chicken related food from the UK unless there were cast iron guarantees on provenance. It could inadvertently end up in a ready meal or a tin of soup so the traceability is crucial. At Heinz we called our supply chain integrity process 'field to fork' priding ourselves on knowing exactly which farmers we bought our vegetables from. All the food safety in the UK is overseen by the FSA with further verification via the BRC accreditation process which ensure food processing factories adhere to the rules 

A more detailed, nuanced description of what I initially wrote.

Exports still permissible then, so long as full traceability.

 

Funnily though, a farmer/councillor I know up in the north east explained on my last visit, that some meat of lower standard gets to the UK, by first going into Ireland.

What the reality of all that is, I don't know, but they've been at it generations and didn't seem too happy. Illustrates that no process is failsafe.

[Mounts Kipper]

29 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

The UK wouldn't buy chicken from the US in reality and if they did i doubt the EU would allow their member states to buy chicken related food from the UK unless there were cast iron guarantees on provenance. It could inadvertently end up in a ready meal or a tin of soup so the traceability is crucial. At Heinz we called our supply chain integrity process 'field to fork' priding ourselves on knowing exactly which farmers we bought our vegetables from. All the food safety in the UK is overseen by the FSA with further verification via the BRC accreditation process which ensure food processing factories adhere to the rules 

So what you are saying is that if we do a deal with the US and import chlorinated chicken then we won’t be able to sell our own chicken to the EU even if it meets or exceeds  EU standards? And if your not saying that what are you saying? You started off saying us buying chlorinated chicken from US precluded us from doing a deal with the EU, it seems you’ve now changed your tune. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

So what you are saying is that if we do a deal with the US and import chlorinated chicken then we won’t be able to sell our own chicken to the EU even if it meets or exceeds  EU standards? And if your not saying that what are you saying? You started off saying us buying chlorinated chicken from US precluded us from doing a deal with the EU, it seems you’ve now changed your tune. 

I think I know what’s he saying

[Salford Trotter]

35 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

A more detailed, nuanced description of what I initially wrote.

Exports still permissible then, so long as full traceability.

 

Funnily though, a farmer/councillor I know up in the north east explained on my last visit, that some meat of lower standard gets to the UK, by first going into Ireland.

What the reality of all that is, I don't know, but they've been at it generations and didn't seem too happy. Illustrates that no process is failsafe.

It's not been an issue up to now so I couldn't say with any confidence that it would be permissible but I just can't see the situation arising because the integrity of the supply chain could be compromised so easily

yup I was at Roberts before I semi retired a couple of years ago

[Tonge moor green jacket]

10 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

It's not been an issue up to now so I couldn't say with any confidence that it would be permissible but I just can't see the situation arising because the integrity of the supply chain could be compromised so easily

yup I was at Roberts before I semi retired a couple of years ago

Good trade agreement with the EU requires then to assure them of no loss in quality. 👍

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, boltondiver said:

I think I know what’s he saying

Your the only one.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Thinking a little more, the supply chain issue as mentioned above is precisely the same for any non-eu nation exporting to the EU.

Take argie corned beef for example. If you've eaten that shit, then it's been approved to be here. Therefore the cattle won't have been fed on any unauthorised grain etc that may have been imported from America or wherever.

[Salford Trotter]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Your the only one.

Says the man who can't add up and didn't know the difference between the WA and the PD.. Laughable😂

[Mounts Kipper]

8 hours ago, Salford Trotter said:

Says the man who can't add up and didn't know the difference between the WA and the PD.. Laughable😂

Says the man that if we do deal with US that we won’t be able to do deal with EU, then when pressed backtracks like an Italian tank. 😂

[bwfcfan5]

13 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Good trade agreement with the EU requires then to assure them of no loss in quality. 👍

Its nothing to do with the agreement. A FTA will likely exclude products where our standards (including that of imports are lower).

So the process for exporting chicken to the EU would become far more difficult - and likely preclude many products from going at all. People have to accept you can't have your cake and eat it here.

We're leaving and going to lose all benefits. But the Brexiteer point has always been we'll make up for all those benefits and more elsewhere within a short time period. That's the challenge. Can we make up for leaving the largest trading bloc in the world with agreements with many other nations and start from scratch and within a few months be better off. That's the Brexiteer promise. They said it would be easy so lets see if its true or not. They've already failed with the oft repeated promise of "a great EU deal within weeks of the vote..." AND "roll over trade deals with third parties would be a piece of cake". So their track record is not very promising. But lets give them a chance to do something right. 

[Mounts Kipper]

just reading that the Valencian president has said Brits abroad will have same healthcare rights after Brexit as they do now. Good news for Costa Blanca based  Brits. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Salford Trotter]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Says the man that if we do deal with US that we won’t be able to do deal with EU, then when pressed backtracks like an Italian tank. 😂

You're making stuff up again Mounts

[Mounts Kipper]

15 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

You're making stuff up again Mounts

Am I!

Salford Trotter     154

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Posted yesterday at 11:13

   On 13/08/2019 at 10:42,  Mounts Kipper said: 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49325620

 

who’s gonna be the first muppet to mention chlorinated chicken. 😂

Chlorinated chicken is the least of our worries, we should be concerned about any drop in food standards remembering that should we strike a deal with the US then it stops us striking a deal with the EU 

[Salford Trotter]

17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Am I!

Salford Trotter     154

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•  

Posted yesterday at 11:13

   On 13/08/2019 at 10:42,  Mounts Kipper said: 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49325620

 

who’s gonna be the first muppet to mention chlorinated chicken. 😂

Chlorinated chicken is the least of our worries, we should be concerned about any drop in food standards remembering that should we strike a deal with the US then it stops us striking a deal with the EU 

It will stop us striking a free trade deal on those areas where our standards are below that of the EU, where is your problem? 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

11 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

It will stop us striking a free trade deal on those areas where our standards are below that of the EU, where is your problem? 

The only person who said our our standards will be below those of the EU is you.

As usual making stuff up and twisting reality.

Try scrutinising your own point.

Plenty of nations around the world will have lower food standards than the EU. They still export there. Weird eh?

Or could it be that they have production standards on exported goods that are acceptable?

Yet more barrier erecting to defend a losing cause.