kent_white

This was always going to happen once people started making a huge fuss over what was realistically not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

Sounds like the prefect description on Gaza to me! 👍

They had a lot of options but went for the nuclear (well maybe just short of nuclear). I think the most justifiable would have been a targeted-intensive campaign. More intensive than limited strikes but not a broad campaign. Mainly aimed at prioritising hostage rescue, eliminating Hamas leadership structure (we already know they're world class at this), destroying the tunnel network, but avoiding civilian population centres unless they had absolutely no choice. Appreciate what a tough position it was for Israel at the time - but I'd argue this would have been proportionate and kept most of the international community onside. Including me. And maybe quite a few of my ilk on here too. Maybe even Bob Vylan 😁 467 people (mainly civilians) are being killed every day since the war began based on estimates that are now a couple of months old. Even using conservative estimates - it's the most deadly conflict in terms of daily deaths in 21st century warfare. Ukraine is about 270 deaths per day including both sides and civilians. 190 a day during the blitz. We haven't seen carnage on this scale since world war 2. And just because we all like to compare things to Sudan for some reason. There's about 61 civilian deaths from military action a day there. Although far more from famine. So there's lots of ways Israel could have chosen to minimise casualties if they'd chosen to do so. And I'm really hoping the numbers quoted above make you rethink your position on this. Maybe the press just haven't been very good at explaining quite the level of carnage inside Gaza. Or maybe they have - but some people just choose not to listen/understand/believe

Unfortunately by that point - there's not really much of a country left of any description to 'liberate'. And I imagine most of the hostages would die in the process. And I doubt there are many school or hospitals left. So got know how the Palestinians are supposed to rebuild their lives. I imagine if I was there - I'd look around at the destruction and conclude there was nothing left worth living for in my life and devote myself to revenge. For however the remainder of my short and miserable life was left.....

Fair enough - it doesn't sound quite so bad now it's only 33,000 - 38,000 civvies. 50,000 is my benchmark for raising an eyebrow - so I'll park my outrage for a bit until we hit a nice round number! 🙄

Handing over those hostages as things stand is suicide as far as Hamas is concerned. So Israel have got them exactly where they want them. They might be a set of evil cunts - but they're very clever at what they do.

It's not hide and seek though is it mate. It's cower like a rat and try to avoid guided missiles that have to crash through hundreds of civilians to get to you, obliterating then in the process. Hamas are absolute cunts for employing this tactic. And the Israelis are absolute cunts for not taking a different approach. Basically it's a war between two sets of utter cunts - with lots of dead men, women and children caught in the cross fire. It knocks me sick.

Exactly - so if you were Hamas - why would you release any hostages without any well brokered cease fire? Or even after any well brokered cease fire of you think Israel would just disregard it after a week. Other than for humanitarian reasons and because it's the 'right thing to do'. Because let's face it - this is an extremely dirty war and things like humanitarianism went out of the window post Oct 7th. The only way I can see this ending as things stand is if Israel manage to entirely displace the population of Gaza, and then heavily fortify it.

The man in the video you posted said it. And anyway - whether it was 60 Hamas or 6,000 Hamas - you'd be happy about it either way wouldn't you? And to be honest - I'd be less concerned with my slightly ambiguous, and hastily posted message, and more concerned with the kids who no longer have arms/legs/sight/parents/homes etc. We're never going to understand each others mentalities on this I don't think

Genuine question. Do you think Israel would pull the troops back and cease hostilities if Hamas handed over the remaining hostages this afternoon?

My point was - if they have killed 50,000 civilians (appreciate that that's a contested figure - but it's likely to be there or there about) - that the idea that they do their best to protect civilians seems like absolute gaslighting.

I know that. What I'm doing is listening to what this man is saying - and then using my brain to try to analyse whether what he's saying sounds plausible - or if whats being said is just a sanitised version of the truth that the IDF want us all to hear. Presumably you're just taking it all at face value (which is entirely your perogative). So you think that they've not opened fire on anybody in an aid distribution queue, and they do their absolute best to minimise civilian casualties, and they've also killed a few dozen Hamas since the food distribution centres have been opened. And also that it's Hamas that are firing on their own people and that anybody who claims otherwise (including the media) is just parroting Hamas propaganda? Have I got that right?

I don't really understand what argument you're making - sorry mate. I was saying that I don't think for one moment the IDF do their best to minimise civilian casualties - as is evidenced by the massive death toll of innocents and children. I'm trying to make sense of the bollocks that the guy is talking in the video. If anything I'm trying to suspend my disbelief. I think the most likely scenario is that they killed are few dozen Hamas in amongst lots of innocent people that they also killed in a food distribution centre that they set up. I'm not saying that the IDF have killed thousands of people at food distribution centres in the past week or two.

Yes I watched it twice. That's how I was able to critically analyse it. And yes - I have contradicted parts of what we're being claimed in the video. Which I think is largely propaganda.

Yes probably. I very much doubt it was Antonio Gutteres. Are you saying that you think that there are people in the higher echelons of the UN that are sanctioning murder?

My guess is - the IDF have fired on people collecting aid - for whatever reason that might be. They have fired from outside the complex at people inside the complex, so technically what this guy is saying is right. In doing so - they have probably killed a couple of dozen members of Hamas, but at the expense of a much larger number of civilians (as seems to be their modus operandi and rules of engagement they've given to their soldiers. Hamas might have also opened fire on civilians in the same area. But presently there's no credible evidence to support this (although it doesn't mean it's not happening). I think your position on trusting the UN is mental. There may well have been some people on the ground who were Hamas sympathisers. I don't know the full facts behind it but I imagine it's been somewhat overblown. I'm as sure as shit that it won't be anybody near the top - or in charge of writing the official reports into the current situation from a humanitarian perspective. It could well have been someone whose job was dropping parcels off or something. This is an assumption though. Sadly and because of their behaviour over the past year or so, I don't trust the IDF anymore than I trust Hamas. This is why the disproportionate action they have taken in Gaza is so counterproductive in my opinion. Their credibility is now questionable, their moral superiority no longer exists, and their future is now going to be one with a vengeful population, desperate for revenge. Which is why the Israeli strategy is to depopulate Gaza - which is the only way to avoid the consequences I've spelt out above. Which is ethnic cleansing. My opinions of course.

No need to patronise me mate. I'm trying to have a serious conversation with you. Yes, it's hard to know who to believe without independent organisations or journalists on the ground. But out of the ones you've mentioned - I'd take the UN as they're not an active combatant. I remember something about a Hamas affiliate working for the UN in some capacity. I imagine it's almost impossible to eliminate that risk entirely - especially if the work you're doing means that you need to recruit Palestinians. I also imagine there's some Israelis working for them as well. But I think anybody using that fact to discredit an entire organisation is being infantile quite frankly. I imagine there are some terrorists working for the NHS. There's a good chance there's a few in the British army too.

So here's my reaction to this video. It sounds very carefully worded to sound genuine and without any deliberate or easily disputable lies. However. "Efforts are constantly being made to avoid harm to Gaza'n civilians, while dozens of terrorists are being successfully eliminated." Firstly. He can get fucked. They've killed about 50,000 so far. Not sure this is worth dozens of terrorists? And he might well have the best intentions in the world, but I'm not sure it's making it through to the IDF soldiers on the ground if the videos, recording, social media clips and testimony are to be believed. "According to initial findings" (whose initial findings?) "the IDF did not fire at civilians within the aid distribution centres" (so did they fire at them outside of the aid distribution centres?) "Hamas is spreading false information which is unfortunately being echoed by the international media" (Simple solution is to allow independent international media into Gaza) "without verification" (not true - BBC verify are all over it). That's me applying a bit of critical thinking. Happy to do the same with a Hamas response if you can find one. Presumably you're not just taking this video at face value either?

"Lynn, these are sex people!" Brilliant. Series 4 of From the Oasthouse came out a couple of days ago on Audible and it's magical! 🤣

Do you like me....... sex wise?

Is there any evidence for this? I'm not saying it's not happening - I've just not seen it being reported anywhere?

I think this is how gammons must feel when people take the knee at football matches but in reverse! 🤣

😂😂

I don't really know what you're going on about. I just posted this because he reminded me of Alan Partridge

I think that would be the last time I ever watched it. They're a joke of an organisation these days. The Trump bum off The Aspinall thing Putting events on in Manchester that start at 1am for a US audience This would be the final nail in their coffin for me. I'd rather watch One Championship anyway.