Monday this week i acquired a new work vehicle (its not mine , i don't own it and didn't choose it,) anyway its full electric.

Was fully charged when i picked it up and they reckon you get approx 200 miles out of it.

I haven't got a designated charging point for it, its 1st come 1st served at a place across town that isn't where i park the vehicle, so today i thought I'll go and plug it in for a bit and it should last till next week.

I gave it about an hour & 20 mins and i gained 11 miles!!!

11 miles 😯😯. Am i doing summert wrong is is it always gonna need an overnight job, its well out of my way to keep changing overnight.

Presumably not a high powered charger?

Tempting to walk to a boozer!

11 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Presumably not a high powered charger?

Tempting to walk to a boozer!

47kwz. No messin tonight. Charged, football, beer! 

Excellent.

Which reminds me, better put the van on charge.

Got grass to cut later in the week when my chauffeur is available  😁

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/electric-car-ev-battery-lithium-price-b2414865.html

Interesting article and quite pertinent.

If this trajectory continues, then evs will increasingly become the vehicle of choice, irrespective of ban delay.

Yesterday's announcement of speeding up distribution expansion should help with this. 

Just hope manufacturers still recognise the importance of their investments and keep plans in place.

There’s some very fucking despondent people in the renewable heating sector today.

They are far from impressed.

It’s more about the message yesterdays announcement sends. Whilst the funding hasn’t gone, what people are hearing is “fuck it, let’s worry about it all another day”

Especially gallling for UK manufacturers who had been told by the government to gear up and prepare for the changes.

Thats money the government never seem keen to return.

4 minutes ago, Spider said:

There’s some very fucking despondent people in the renewable heating sector today.

They are far from impressed.

It’s more about the message yesterdays announcement sends. Whilst the funding hasn’t gone, what people are hearing is “fuck it, let’s worry about it all another day”

Especially gallling for UK manufacturers who had been told by the government to gear up and prepare for the changes.

Thats money the government never seem keen to return.

You're preaching to the wrong person; I don't agree with yesterday's changes, though the concerns over boilers in some circumstances are legitimate. 

It could cause problems with reduced demand for those companies which I think is wrong. 

The 50% increase in grants will hopefully help with that though. 

For me, they could have kept it, but looked at ways for home owners to fund their purchase- as we've discussed before; a "mortgage" type system with a decent time period for repayment, or some other innovative scheme with lenders.

Anyway, this is moving away from the thread's topic, so will leave the politics of it.

Specifically on evs, it is good news.

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You're preaching to the wrong person; I don't agree with yesterday's changes, though the concerns over boilers in some circumstances are legitimate. 

It could cause problems with reduced demand for those companies which I think is wrong. 

The 50% increase in grants will hopefully help with that though. 

For me, they could have kept it, but looked at ways for home owners to fund their purchase- as we've discussed before; a "mortgage" type system with a decent time period for repayment, or some other innovative scheme with lenders.

Anyway, this is moving away from the thread's topic, so will leave the politics of it.

Specifically on evs, it is good news.

You're preaching to the wrong person. I didn't even read anything you just wrote. Why did you single me out for this diatribe?

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You're preaching to the wrong person. I didn't even read anything you just wrote. Why did you single me out for this diatribe?

It was me he replied to and in fairness I’m on the wrong thread so he’s right.

Sorry @Tonge moor green jacket 🙃

41 minutes ago, Spider said:

It was me he replied to and in fairness I’m on the wrong thread so he’s right.

Sorry @Tonge moor green jacket 🙃

I know.

SO, does cold weather kill these things or what ?

26% battery Friday afternoon. 3% this morning.

Is this the future?

12 minutes ago, Whitestar said:

SO, does cold weather kill these things or what ?

26% battery Friday afternoon. 3% this morning.

Is this the future?

They're not keen on cold weather, although that sounds more like you have another issue elsewhere, unless the car is doing something when you're not in it (which is possible)

Also, one of my mates drove and parked his Tesla  at Stansted, and he left it in sentry mode, as he'd not taken his work phone on holiday, he didn't see/realise how much is was draining his battery. When he got back last week, he only had about 50 miles left in his car, and he reckons it was nearly fully charged when he parked up. Fortunately there's a supercharger at Birchanger Services, so he was good to go within about 10 minutes, but it was a hassle he didn't need at nearly 11 o'clock at night

 

is this the future? - the type of EV you're driving most certainly isn't, none of those on the roads today are, but they will get better and more efficient over the next 10-20 years

Can't, think that anything was left on, its not really got any fancy gadgets to mess with anyway.

46 minutes ago, Whitestar said:

SO, does cold weather kill these things or what ?

26% battery Friday afternoon. 3% this morning.

Is this the future?

Nah, way too much of a loss over a short period. I don't lose anything like that.

It is recommended to leave a relatively small amount in if going away for any length of time though.

New technology will see leakage reduce, amongst other improvements. 

7 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Nah, way too much of a loss over a short period. I don't lose anything like that.

It is recommended to leave a relatively small amount in if going away for any length of time though.

New technology will see leakage reduce, amongst other improvements. 

It will, but it's still several years away, and doesn't help folk at the minute. I can see why people are being turned off electric vehicles at the minute. The last few weeks have really brought home to me how they're really difficult to use for anybody who does large mileage.

On a slightly different note, one of my customers has just got the performance Tesla 3, his insurance is £1800 per year 😧

Much of the rhetoric isn't accurate, but folk read it and take it as gospel. 

I wonder how many folk in the early days I

Of the combustion engine moaned and said they wouldn't catch on, as there wasn't a network of filling stations. 

Of course it will take time, but the lack of positive stories in many of the papers don't help.

Just read the other day, that a fast charger, with its associated higher charging cost, still made for a cheaper per mile cost than petrol. Can't remember the two cars they used, but the high oil cost has wanged up fuel again.

It may switch around again, who knows, but things aren't as bad as often portrayed.

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Much of the rhetoric isn't accurate, but folk read it and take it as gospel. 

I wonder how many folk in the early days I

Of the combustion engine moaned and said they wouldn't catch on, as there wasn't a network of filling stations. 

Of course it will take time, but the lack of positive stories in many of the papers don't help.

Just read the other day, that a fast charger, with its associated higher charging cost, still made for a cheaper per mile cost than petrol. Can't remember the two cars they used, but the high oil cost has wanged up fuel again.

It may switch around again, who knows, but things aren't as bad as often portrayed.

They're not all bad at all, neither are they looking all good either.

I spend many hours of my working week speaking to manufacturers of EV Chargers, and battery manufacturers. EV Charger sales, in the UK are 60% down year on year (and that's numbers from the 3 largest, combined) - They're absolutely fuming that the Government has pushed back another 5 years to 2035, and already they seem to think it's going to be pushed back further still to 2040.

On the plus side, there is talk of Toyota having a solution that will deliver 700+ miles and can be charged within 10/15 minutes. Talk of it being readily available for 2028, is a bit ambitious, but at least we're looking at getting towards a reasonable range. It all depends how quickly they can actually produce these solid state batteries, and move away from liquid electrolytes. Toyota reckon 2028.....the factories who we deal with, who make batteries, reckon closer to 2033. Either way, I guess it's heading in the right direction, and it gives us time to get some sort of infrastructure in place. Let's not forget, if even if just 1 in 6 houses in the UK had an EV, and they plugged them all in at the same time, the grid would collapse. Also, most houses would fall over (electrically), if they plugged 2 EV's in at the same time 

 

The game changer will be when houses are set up to take from the car, as well as put into the car - and all the EV charger companies are working on this at the minute - until they've cracked that, and it's reliable, and there isn't too much quiescent loss, then we're going to be a bit stuck, especially as the Government doesn't seem to want to improve the required infrastructure

Edited October 23, 20232 yr by Sweep

30 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Just read the other day, that a fast charger, with its associated higher charging cost, still made for a cheaper per mile cost than petrol. Can't remember the two cars they used, but the high oil cost has wanged up fuel again.

 

This does move around, we do checks at work on occasion - a few months ago, my dirty diesel worked out about 10% cheaper than a Tesla charging up at a fast charger. As you say, since diesel has start to increase in price again, I'm sure that's flip flopped. There's not a lot in it either way in general though

2 hours ago, Whitestar said:

SO, does cold weather kill these things or what ?

26% battery Friday afternoon. 3% this morning.

Is this the future?

I use far more battery when it’s colder but never seen it go down overnight like that.

charging performance is worse though.

Edited October 23, 20232 yr by tomski

Sweep- pushing back the switch date ton2035, as discussed elsewhere, I think is a mistake. Although I can see why it has been done.

The number of charger sales has indeed gone down (before the decision was announced) and I'm sure there are a number of contributing factors: cost of living crisis, lack of distribution infrastructure, planning application times for example. 

Can only hope that as part of the changes, the increased emphasis on the distribution network means that supply to both commercial and domestic is better by 2035. Not sure why some are thinking another pushback will occur, given Kier Starmer criticised the initial decision, and it seems likely he will be in the job soon.

Unless the industry knows something different!

45 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Sweep- pushing back the switch date ton2035, as discussed elsewhere, I think is a mistake. Although I can see why it has been done.

The number of charger sales has indeed gone down (before the decision was announced) and I'm sure there are a number of contributing factors: cost of living crisis, lack of distribution infrastructure, planning application times for example. 

Can only hope that as part of the changes, the increased emphasis on the distribution network means that supply to both commercial and domestic is better by 2035. Not sure why some are thinking another pushback will occur, given Kier Starmer criticised the initial decision, and it seems likely he will be in the job soon.

Unless the industry knows something different!

You are right, the dip in sales of EV Chargers actually started last October, so the decision to push back 5 years, whilst it hasn't helped, certainly isn't the main reason for the decline. The reasons that you give are all valid, and the big one is infrastructure, there is just absolutely fuck all, and not much more than that planned really. Whilst not directly related, there is also a concern on "used" EVs, because it's still an unknown, certainly if it's an "ex fleet" vehicle, that may have done 50K/75K/100K miles. We're still in the infancy of EVs, so there is a lot to learn, how long the battery will last is one of those things we need to learn (and the accelerated testing conditions done in the factories are bollocks, so they need to be taken with a pinch of salt, as figures in the real world are generally very, very different)

Whilst Starmer did criticise the push back, that's obviously easy to do when you're not in power.....When he does get in power (which looks pretty likely) he'll be able pull it forward to 2030 again if he wants to, I suspect he won't.

Two of my customers were telling me about the push back from 2030 to 2035 in September/October last year, as they had already heard rumblings that the EU was going to push out (they then announced it in March this year I think) - and make no mistake as soon as the EU pushed back, we were always going to follow suit - no way do we want to be "leading" on this sort of thing, as it's not going to be easy. If the EU hadn't pushed back, then neither would we. Those same customers are already talking about further push backs already being in the pipeline. They may be wrong, but they know more about it than I do.

5 hours ago, Sweep said:

They're not all bad at all, neither are they looking all good either.

I spend many hours of my working week speaking to manufacturers of EV Chargers, and battery manufacturers. EV Charger sales, in the UK are 60% down year on year (and that's numbers from the 3 largest, combined) - They're absolutely fuming that the Government has pushed back another 5 years to 2035, and already they seem to think it's going to be pushed back further still to 2040.

On the plus side, there is talk of Toyota having a solution that will deliver 700+ miles and can be charged within 10/15 minutes. Talk of it being readily available for 2028, is a bit ambitious, but at least we're looking at getting towards a reasonable range. It all depends how quickly they can actually produce these solid state batteries, and move away from liquid electrolytes. Toyota reckon 2028.....the factories who we deal with, who make batteries, reckon closer to 2033. Either way, I guess it's heading in the right direction, and it gives us time to get some sort of infrastructure in place. Let's not forget, if even if just 1 in 6 houses in the UK had an EV, and they plugged them all in at the same time, the grid would collapse. Also, most houses would fall over (electrically), if they plugged 2 EV's in at the same time 

 

The game changer will be when houses are set up to take from the car, as well as put into the car - and all the EV charger companies are working on this at the minute - until they've cracked that, and it's reliable, and there isn't too much quiescent loss, then we're going to be a bit stuck, especially as the Government doesn't seem to want to improve the required infrastructure

They don’t do themselves any favours We paid £1200 6 weeks ago for a charger. Fucked us about for ages saying we shared a supply with next door, couldn’t get a date for love or money. 
 

Fucked em off in the end got a refund and got an outside plug socket fitted for £60. I’ve started spaffing  my share of the £1200 on expensive bike gear instead. 

Edited October 23, 20232 yr by mickbrown

1 hour ago, mickbrown said:

They don’t do themselves any favours We paid £1200 6 weeks ago for a charger. Fucked us about for ages saying we shared a supply with next door, couldn’t get a date for love or money. 
 

Fucked em off in the end got a refund and got an outside plug socket fitted for £60. I’ve started spaffing  my share of the £1200 on expensive bike gear instead. 

How long will it take to charge just on a 13amp 3 pin socket?

My new car is hopefully here in a few weeks after an initial 9 month wait dropped to 6 but it's a plug in hybrid so will charge overnight on a normal socket.

12 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

How long will it take to charge just on a 13amp 3 pin socket?

My new car is hopefully here in a few weeks after an initial 9 month wait dropped to 6 but it's a plug in hybrid so will charge overnight on a normal socket.

It’s a hybrid. It only does 40 miles in battery. Takes about 4 hours to charge, no matter if you use a 3 pin plug or a proper ev charger.  The car limits it for some reason. 
 

Originally thinking about future proofing but at £1200 we had second thoughts 

1 hour ago, mickbrown said:

They don’t do themselves any favours We paid £1200 6 weeks ago for a charger. Fucked us about for ages saying we shared a supply with next door, couldn’t get a date for love or money. 
 

Fucked em off in the end got a refund and got an outside plug socket fitted for £60. I’ve started spaffing  my share of the £1200 on expensive bike gear instead. 

The local leccy board sort out your supply. Had to have mine separated from next door, prior to installation. 

The installer initiate the work obviously, but I would assume that the delay was down to your company. Electricity north West for me.

Everything went smoothly, except the bloke with the digger nicked the cable with the bucket!

2 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

It’s a hybrid. It only does 40 miles in battery. Takes about 4 hours to charge, no matter if you use a 3 pin plug or a proper ev charger.  The car limits it for some reason. 
 

Originally thinking about future proofing but at £1200 we had second thoughts 

Did you not get your grant?