1. A significant amount of Scousers were disorderly beforehand

2. The police were disorganised during

3. The emergency services as a whole responded badly

4. There was no real cover up and Taylor's report was by and large correct.

 

Scousers will deny item 1 and feed on items 2 and 3

I do hope you're not suggesting ticketless fans are in any way to blame here.

By turning up without proper means of entrance should not mean they are capable of making the leap of intelligence required to figure out that by doing so puts lives at risk.

They turned up fully expecting the police to turn them away nicely and that they would turn round and go home without a fuss.

Of course they are blameless.

Is there any evidence that they were ticketless?

They turned up fully expecting the police to turn them away nicely

 

But that's exactly what the police did when the same two teams played at the same ground in the semi-final the year before...

But that's exactly what the police did when the same two teams played at the same ground in the semi-final the year before...

 

That's what Spider just said. The Liverpool fans are obviously blameless as they were simply expecting to be turned away again, but instead, the police forced them to jump over walls and surge through turnstiles without tickets...

The Liverpool fans are obviously blameless as they were simply expecting to be turned away again, but instead, the police forced them to jump over walls and surge through turnstiles without tickets...

 

How many turned up without tickets?

How many turned up without tickets?

 

Obviously none. Salt of the earth and all that.

Obviously none. Salt of the earth and all that.

 

So you don't actually know? How about giving us the police estimate then?

So you don't actually know? How about giving us the police estimate then?

 

I'm not defending the police. This is what's so ridiculous about all this. Nobody is willing to discuss the actual cause of the disaster. The police fucked up big time, and their behaviour in the following days, months and years was utterly despicable, and they should rightfully be punished for it.

 

Yet when someone points out that maybe thousands of fans had something to do with the disaster by piling into an already over-capacity pen, they're instantly accused of supporting the police. It's one of the biggest elephants in the room of all time.

Have they ever condemned their part in it?

'Their' ??

 

Haha piss off.

 

The victims are the only ones blameless in this.

 

Are you ignoring this massive enquiry that's just taken place??

How many turned up without tickets?

Millions according to the sun.

 

Who have since been proven to have lied.

Nobody is willing to discuss the actual cause of the disaster.

 

You mean no one is willing to listen to your half baked version of events. I've asked you how many ticketless fans were there but you don't appear to know, even though you say it as if it were fact.

Ill hold my hands up and admit I have believed the scousers were to blame but with all that's coming out it turns out a lot of things they had said over the years seem to be coming to light.

 

Hopefully the families get the closure they need as if it was a relative of mine and things weren't right, I would also want the 'truth' to come out.

Edited March 17, 201511 yr by tomski

You mean no one is willing to listen to your half baked version of events. I've asked you how many ticketless fans were there but you don't appear to know, even though you say it as if it were fact.

 

As I said, fans were obviously totally blameless. Salt of the earth. Didn't put a foot wrong.

Ill hold my hands up and was have for many years played the blame game with the scousers, but with all that's coming out it turns out a lot of things they had said over the years seem to be coming to light.

 

Hopefully the families get the closure they need as if it was a relative of mine and things weren't right, I would also want the 'truth' to come out.

Same here

'Their' ??

 

Haha piss off.

 

The victims are the only ones blameless in this.

 

Are you ignoring this massive enquiry that's just taken place??

 

Exactly. Yet the only ones being blamed are the police. They had a large part to play in it, but they're not the ONLY ones to blame.

Could of been any team at that time. It was they way football was and stadia was set up, with poor safety measures.

Edited March 17, 201511 yr by tomski

Exactly. Yet the only ones being blamed are the police. They had a large part to play in it, but they're not the ONLY ones to blame.

Were you there?

 

How come this disaster didnt happen elsewhere?

 

Was it the the exceptional behaviour of the Liverpool fans?

 

Or the exceptional behaviour of the police??

 

Could this event have been avoided if the police had asserted their due diligence??

What happened to the person who set fire to the house?

He's spending the next 20 odd years blaming the firemen.

Were you there?

 

How come this disaster didnt happen elsewhere?

 

Was it the the exceptional behaviour of the Liverpool fans?

 

Or the exceptional behaviour of the police??

 

Could this event have been avoided if the police had asserted their due diligence??

 

Can you answer any of those questions, apart from the first one? (My answer is 'no' by the way)

 

Still waiting for your answer regarding the arsonist in your earlier analogy...

Edited March 17, 201511 yr by Redmond

What happened to the person who set fire to the house?

If they are culpable so are a gazillion other football fans during that era.

 

The fans outside had no idea.

 

Either did a lot of you that acted the cunt in the 80's.

If they are culpable so are a gazillion other football fans during that era.

 

The fans outside had no idea.

 

Either did a lot of you that acted the cunt in the 80's.

 

So you're admitting they're culpable. At last....

 

Unless you're suggesting they're not culpable because "everyone was doing it at the time..."

 

And you still haven't answered the question.

Edited March 18, 201511 yr by Redmond

The victims are the only ones blameless in this.

 

 

Fucking bingo!

Were you there?

 

How come this disaster didnt happen elsewhere?

 

Was it the the exceptional behaviour of the Liverpool fans?

 

Or the exceptional behaviour of the police??

 

Could this event have been avoided if the police had asserted their due diligence??

Remember when we went to Munich for the 5-1?

 

We had 4 tickets for 4 different parts of the ground and still ended up in the England end, overcrowded, in the wrong seats with loads of other English who climbed in or had bent tickets.

 

It's what people used to do.

 

We did it. Me and you.

 

You believe for some reason on this one special occasion none of the Liverpool fans didn't do what many other football fans did yesteryear?

 

Clearly it's not and never was the fault of the poor fuckers at the front who would have got there nice and early and died as a result of a twisted sequence of events completely out of their control, and yet we're treated appallingly with contempt thereafter. That is one sick sad story.

 

But if you think football fans behaved differently that day to any bother big game back in the day then I'd be surprised.

 

A dozen causes lead to one effect.

 

Most of the causes have now been rightfully admitted. Some have not.

Fucking bingo!

 

Nobody has suggested anything else though.

It was the right thing to open the gates, otherwise people could and would have been crushed outside.

 

It was wrong not to close the central tunnel before opening the gates.

 

There were more fans than capacity there.

 

The subsequent refusal to admit culpability from both police and Liverpool fans is deplorable.

 

The cover-up is/was despicable.

It was the right thing to open the gates, otherwise people could and would have been crushed outside.

 

It was wrong not to close the central tunnel before opening the gates.

 

There were more fans than capacity there.

 

The subsequent refusal to admit culpability from both police and Liverpool fans is deplorable.

 

The cover-up is/was despicable.

This. The bit I think we're all pissed off about is the elephant in the room is avoided by everyone in the media and is completely avoided as a potential cause.