is that it now game over no chance of POTUS

 

Rayguns out

16 minutes ago, boltonboris said:

His problem is that he cannot take advice from anybody. No matter the subject, he refuses to accept that he's not the most informed person. Other than his rape lawyers, I cannot imagine him giving anybody opportunity to advise him on a best course of action.

32 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

He's blown em..

I listened to an American dude-military type- who explained that the military knew full well what was required to complete the job, but Trump et al essentially ignored it.

I also think he spat his dummy out when others didn't join in, so chose to do his blockade etc.

Still. At least he's liberated the Iranians! 🙄

He’ll claim it as another war he’s stopped.

16 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

He’ll claim it as another war he’s stopped.

He's already claimed that several times since he started it.

17 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

He’ll claim it as another war he’s stopped.

He will.

Thankfully, all the nations who didn't "join" were proved right. A colossal waste of both time and money. Almost nothing achieved, apart from Iran not having any nuclear ability, and being set back decades....for the second time in 12 months

Gotta hand it to the guy though. Can’t be easy to waste so many dollars, do so much damage, kill so many people and end up with a worse deal than Obama achieved peacefully in 2015.

9 minutes ago, Sweep said:

He will.

Thankfully, all the nations who didn't "join" were proved right. A colossal waste of both time and money. Almost nothing achieved, apart from Iran not having any nuclear ability, and being set back decades....for the second time in 12 months

Plus the US being in much weaker position than when it started the war of course!

The following taken from the BBC -

Iranian state media is reporting what is says are the draft details of a 14-point memorandum of understanding between the US and Iran.

The specific points have not been officially confirmed by either country.

Mehr News Agency, a semi-official Iranian state news outlet, says the points include:

A permanent ceasefire on all fronts, including Lebanon

US commitment not to interfere with Iran's internal affairs

Lifting of US naval blockade within 30 days

US withdrawal of forces from Iran

Reopening the Strait of Hormuz within 30 days "under Iranian arrangements"

The US and its allies delivering reconstruction plans for Iran worth at least $300bn

Ending sanctions on Iranian oil and energy products

Reiteration of Iran's commitment not to produce nuclear weapons

US commitment not to increase its forces in the region and not impose new sanctions

Mehr also reported that "final negotiations will not begin before half of Iran's frozen funds are released, Iran's oil sanctions are suspended, and the naval blockade is lifted".

Also from the BBC -

US Vice President JD Vance says ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz will not need to pay a toll to Iran as part of the framework deal reached on Sunday.

"Our expectation is that the strait is going to be opened in a toll-free way for the long term," Vance tells CNBC.

Following the start of the conflict, Iran has implemented a system to collect levies from ships passing through the vital shipping lane.

Vance acknowledges that toll-free access may be temporary but the plan is to continue discussions with Iran in the coming days for a more permanent solution.

I read something a few weeks back were the Iranians were offering to make Hormuz toll free BUT they will be charging a 'environmental levy' instead.

Don't know how true that is but it wouldn't surprise me in the least there will be something in the small print to a similar effect as I can't see Iran giving up their grip on Hormuz just to let Trump off the hook.

There's also this 'threat' from Trump that I've not seen reported over here.

And yes I know Trump lies but I thought it was interesting because is threat was not against Iran solely but against Saudi and all the other Gulf States too...

In an interview with the New York Times on Sunday afternoon, US President Donald Trump warned that if Iran failed to reach a final nuclear accord with the United States, he would restart military attacks on Tehran and make Washington “the guardian of the Middle East” in return for 20 per cent of the region’s revenues.

In a 28-minute phone call with the NYT, Trump said that the agreement that has been reached with Iran would ultimately ensure that the Strait of Hormuz is “permanently toll-free”. He went on to argue that despite Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s objections, the United States saved Israel from nuclear obliteration.

The article also says this...

It is pertinent to note that Iran has never charged tolls before the war, so Trump is basically celebrating the return to the status quo. He went on to compare his memorandum with that of the 2015 agreement reached between former President Barack Obama and Iran’s leadership, arguing that his agreement will ensure that Iran “cannot develop or purchase a nuclear weapon.”

'Will make US guardian of Middle East for 20% revenue if Iran fails to reach nuclear deal': Trump tells NYT – Firstpost

I imagine Trump has been ripping off Venezuela's oil revenue as well.

31 minutes ago, Bertie said:

Gotta hand it to the guy though. Can’t be easy to waste so many dollars, do so much damage, kill so many people and end up with a worse deal than Obama achieved peacefully in 2015.

I think he's massively richer though, so it's not all bad

30 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Plus the US being in much weaker position than when it started the war of course!

But he personally, is is a much, much, much better financial position. That's all that matters.

So, this ‘ere Iran deal that was supposedly signed earlier in the week is now apparently not signed, and although it’s not final, it maybe signed tomorrow, but Iran had better behave else Trump will drop bombs right smack on the middle of their heads.

We are privileged to live in such times to be able to see the great disrupter and master deal maker at work.

Edited June 17Jun 17 by Bertie

A $300 billion 'reconstruction and development fund' and all sanctions lifted

What an absolutely useless cunt! 🤣

9 minutes ago, kent_white said:

A $300 billion 'reconstruction and development fund' and all sanctions lifted

What an absolutely useless cunt! 🤣

Let's not forget the 120 school children in Minab on the first day...

3 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Let's not forget the 120 school children in Minab on the first day...

And the US looking toothless despite burning through its resources, further eroding it's influence globally, alienating its allies in and around the gulf, setting back the resistance movement and showing Iran that they can shut down the world economy at will.

Well done Donald. Another masterpiece from you and no doubt a source of unbridled joy to your army of clapping seals.

Oh and ending up with someone in charge who may well turn out to be even more of a hard liner than his dad! 👏👏👏

I find the criminality of carrying out a rushed and bodged operation on the request of the Israeli state staggering, particularly how quickly the world has forgotten what happened on the first day owing to the obvious lack of preparation and military intelligence.

Kids at school getting the sharp end of a Tomahawk missile? Indefensible. I lost all faith in the associated politics from then on... Why hasn't this been raised at G7? Worse than Putin in my book.

3 hours ago, kent_white said:

A $300 billion 'reconstruction and development fund' and all sanctions lifted

What an absolutely useless cunt! 🤣

Trump saying that the fund is being paid by others (the Gulf States?) and the US is not contributing anything.

One example being quoted is that the UAE build them a nuclear power station...

Also Hormuz is limited to just 60 days free passage, after that Iran and the Gulf States will decide if it is free or not...

BBC News

Three key takeaways from US-Iran deal

The BBC's Gary O'Donoghue breaks down the memorandum of understanding between the two countries.

29 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Trump saying that the fund is being paid by others (the Gulf States?) and the US is not contributing anything.

One example being quoted is that the UAE build them a nuclear power station...

Also Hormuz is limited to just 60 days free passage, after that Iran and the Gulf States will decide if it is free or not...

This is what I meant about alienating our allies in the region. They're left to pick up the pieces.

And I imagine Beijing will be putting in a few calls to their capitals over the next few months.

It's disastrously bad this - and I don't think most people are really comprehending quite how bad.

20 minutes ago, kent_white said:

This is what I meant about alienating our allies in the region. They're left to pick up the pieces.

And I imagine Beijing will be putting in a few calls to their capitals over the next few months.

It's disastrously bad this - and I don't think most people are really comprehending quite how bad.

I'm no expert but as I understand things the Middle East was more to do with Russia influence over Iran (both equally being linked with China, whilst Saudi and the Gulf states looked to the US for them to defend them from Iran by buying all the US high techy military equipment - the creme da la creme stuff.

Syria and Iraq were under Russian influence but since Russia got tied up in Ukraine both have slipped back under US influence, Israel very much tied to the US of course.

The thing is though that Trump's war has shown just how bad the US defend their Gulf state allies, in that their top range air defence systems costing millions and millions, firing missiles themselves worth millions, simply could not cope with Iran's ten bob drones.

War has changed fundamentally and it is more fought and defended with drones (with apparently the drones being able to think for themselves with AI).

The Americans and the Gulf states pissed away a third of the US arms stockpile in just the first 3 days of the war, reportedly.

If true Zelenskyy apparently got the Saudi's and Gulf stated to sign armament deals with Ukraine (for drone defence) being the first time since Santa was a lad, that Saudi went elsewhere other than the US for military stuff.

The bottom line being (if true) that the US simply can't defend the Arab states from Iran's drones, which starts to make one think that the £300 billion 'rebuild' money to Iran might be them paying it as a sort of protection racket.

I would not think China would be in the market to protect the Arab States in place of the US BUT I imagine they would be very keen to sell drones to them in vast quantities.

I think Saudi etc are in too deep to walkaway from the US (all their kit needs to be serviced and maintained for the next decade or two for instance) but I imagine they will no longer pay the billions they must have done over the years for the top range planes and tanks and stuff because everything now is about wars being fought by drones and not people.

Everything's all fucked up by Trump (as per usual) and it is hard to see what if anything at all has Trump has gained from all this?

For all the US military might it couldn't stop the drones, weakened it's super power status in the eyes of the world, weakened it's influence in the Gulf (my guess is that there will end up being some sort of fee to sail past Hormuz) still leave the Iranian regime in power, strengthen Iran influence in the region, not removed the uranium, cost billions, effected negatively the rest of the world and end up with a more or less identical agreement Obama had that Trump ripped up.

At least no one's talking about Epstein though....

7 hours ago, Sluffy said:

For all the US military might it couldn't stop the drones, weakened it's super power status in the eyes of the world, weakened it's influence in the Gulf (my guess is that there will end up being some sort of fee to sail past Hormuz) still leave the Iranian regime in power, strengthen Iran influence in the region, not removed the uranium, cost billions, effected negatively the rest of the world and end up with a more or less identical agreement Obama had that Trump ripped up.

That's a pretty accurate take on where it looks like we'll end up, sadly. Trump's second term has been calamitous for the west.

And yet people still bought the 'liberating the Iranians' line hook line and sinker, didn't they?

Not sure if you were on here at the time. But Trump was being lauded for his courage in bringing an evil regime to justice.

Incidentally it was largely the same group of people that told us Brexit would be the solution to our immigration woes and that we should vote Reform in the next election as they will have the answer to everything.

and yet at least one person on here think's he's a master disruptor, and this is all part of some incredible masterplan......although to be fair, even he's gone quiet on Trump of late. Maybe, he's realised that, and not for the first time, he's backed the wrong horse as usual. 🙂

46 minutes ago, Sweep said:

and yet at least one person on here think's he's a master disruptor, and this is all part of some incredible masterplan......although to be fair, even he's gone quiet on Trump of late. Maybe, he's realised that, and not for the first time, he's backed the wrong horse as usual. 🙂

In the early stages I supported the disruption... just like in this country the status quo is too comforatble and elite.

BUT... he has gone far too far, bordering on a fascist dictatorship now and his public are blinded.

Mid terms soon...

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

That's a pretty accurate take on where it looks like we'll end up, sadly. Trump's second term has been calamitous for the west.

And yet people still bought the 'liberating the Iranians' line hook line and sinker, didn't they?

Not sure if you were on here at the time. But Trump was being lauded for his courage in bringing an evil regime to justice.

Incidentally it was largely the same group of people that told us Brexit would be the solution to our immigration woes and that we should vote Reform in the next election as they will have the answer to everything.

I was still serving my ban at the time but I did post this on Nuts the day Trump's war started...

I don't think anybody in the western world would be sad to see the back of the Ayatollah the concern though is Trump attacked Iran and killed the Ayatollah without any approval from their Parliament - and seems to have zero plans as to what happens next.

Look what happened in Iraq and Libya when they did the same.

And what happens if China thinks well Russia attacked Ukraine, the US has just taken out the leaders of Venezuela and now Iran, we might as well invade Taiwan now.

There is no international rules to play by anymore - the strong just do what they want.

That's not a good thing....

I had been reading some of the threads on here that interested me during my hiatus and saw for myself the vatnik following of Trumps devotees on here (I've been warned about posting up definitions but vatnik is such an excellent description of Trumps followers that I recommend you to look up the definition if you have not heard of the word before).

I have to keep things short, that's another thing I've been warned about, so best if I post no more within this particular post.

Hope you understand that I would have loved to have said more.