Not sure if this has been brought up but I can't find it if it has...

 

Where do we all stand on this??

 

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, when I went to school (1995-2000) we were split into different sets for subjects based on ability. I.e maths set 1-7 (1 being the best and 7 the worst) so that you didn't have someone really good being held back by being in the same class as someone poor at it (and visa versa)

 

Surely grammar schools are just the same but grouping by district as appose to just within a school?

 

Also, as it stands to get into the best high school in Chorley (St Micheals) you have to go to church every week ffs. Same with the best primary schools. It doesn't matter if your Catholic, Jewish, Muslim etc etc as long as you attend every week and get your stamps

 

They are only doing this as they know a parent willing to go to church every week will also put a shift in teaching at home

 

I'd rather have an 11+ system / Grammar schools than the current system of faith taking precedence

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by birch-chorley

Apologies to all as I know I'm going on a bit here but I just want to clarify my position on this equality thing.  I haven't exactly thought this through fully and I'm sure there are lots of holes and issues but as an example of what I think I would like to see here goes:

 

You can keep Harrow, Eton and all other exclusive schools.  They become centres of excellence if you will.  Funded by Gov and independent donations.  Any child has the chance to get in these schools.  £ is not an issue.  However, these spots would be hotly contested and obviously very exclusive.  It would create healthy competition that would require parental engagement and support.  Not a bad thing . . .

 

 So long as each child in the UK has a chance to get in I would be happy with that.  You could have comps or grammars for me, or an alternative(?),  but every school in the UK should have an open selection policy not based on £, background, post code or religious affinity etc.   You can have religious schools by all means but they should be open to all faiths imo. I'm clearly crazy to think such a thing but I can't see a fairer way of doing it - it would also help reduce the elitism.

 

OK - there are some issues, e.g. funding, that would need working round! - perhaps pull money that goes to the MOD?  Or make some more weapons so we we can engineer/justify another 'war' and sell them to both sides . . . sorry, couldn't resist  

Apologies to all as I know I'm going on a bit here but I just want to clarify my position on this equality thing.  I haven't exactly thought this through fully and I'm sure there are lots of holes and issues but as an example of what I think I would like to see here goes:

 

You can keep Harrow, Eton and all other exclusive schools.  They become centres of excellence if you will.  Funded by Gov and independent donations.  Any child has the chance to get in these schools.  £ is not an issue.  However, these spots would be hotly contested and obviously very exclusive.  It would create healthy competition that would require parental engagement and support.  Not a bad thing . . .

 

 So long as each child in the UK has a chance to get in I would be happy with that.  You could have comps or grammars for me, or an alternative(?),  but every school in the UK should have an open selection policy not based on £, background, post code or religious affinity etc.   You can have religious schools by all means but they should be open to all faiths imo. I'm clearly crazy to think such a thing but I can't see a fairer way of doing it - it would also help reduce the elitism.

 

OK - there are some issues, e.g. funding, that would need working round! - perhaps pull money that goes to the MOD?  Or make some more weapons so we we can engineer/justify another 'war' and sell them to both sides . . . sorry, couldn't resist

 

Eton has 14 free scholarship places among its annual intake of 128.

The problem is that most of them are privileged anyway.

Boris J won one, and his 2 younger brothers also went to Eton (I'm not sure whether they had scholarships or not).

Kwasi Kwarteng, another Conservative MP, won such a place. As he was the son of 2 immigrant students from Ghana I'm pretty sure it was a case of a very bright non-rich child winning a place.

Eton, like almost all public schools, uses the Common Entrance examination. But they use a lower pass mark than most, because their fees are higher than most, so other than the free places the richest do tend to get in.

Millfield is another which charges very high fees, but gives sports scholarships to many who have established their ability in the state system. Gareth Edwards is but one example, coming from the valleys above Swansea.

 

I think that, in order to retain charitable status, all private schools should be obliged to offer at least 10% of places free of charge to students in the state system. This could be tiered, beginning at 5% and increasing by 1% over the following 5 years.

 

 

We need to maximise the potential for every child, not equal. - Agree. I never said children were all equal, just that they should be given an equal opportunity to maximise their potential.

 

The best kids need to be with each other, be that intellectually, practically or otherwise. - agree, in the main.

 

Collaboration and competition are good life skills. - agree

 

Money wouldn't come in the way of that, really. - not so sure about that . . .

 

Grammar schools have helped children of all backgrounds up the ladder. - yes, possibly

 

Corbyn went to a grammar, for example.

 

 

We need to deploliticise the teaching "profession", who are in the way of progress. - On this I couldn't agree more! I find it odd to say the least that politicians, and all that goes with that, ruin run education. It should be left primarily to educators imo. Constant moving of goal posts for political votes is unwise and will continue to disrupt and damage the system.

 

You may have misread what I said about depoliticisation

 

The teaching profession are led by leftists. Many teachers are left leaning and this is what we need to change.

 

At the moment, because of this, teachers couldn't be trusted to run education, which is a shame.

It's a myth that educationalists are largely 'leftist' - a myth spun by bullshit like the banning of baa baa black sheep and the reading of 'My gay dads' books...

 

They're no different than most public sector workers in favouring the party most likely to spend, or at least the one perceived that way. They're only human in protecting their role, provision for the children and pay/conditions etc. and will overlook the pertinent issue raised by the 'right' that there isn't a bottomless well...

 

Believe me, there are loads of burgeoning Katie Hopkins and Richard Littlejohns in the sector, it isn't all Keffiyahs and big colourful hooped earring wearers.

 

Swanny's a teacher - I wouldn't say he's leftist, far from it.

Edited September 15, 20169 yr by Youri McAnespie

You may have misread what I said about depoliticisation

 

The teaching profession are led by leftists. Many teachers are left leaning and this is what we need to change.

 

At the moment, because of this, teachers couldn't be trusted to run education, which is a shame.

What are you proposing? Some kind of political indoctrination programme for qualified teachers? Or would you only let the ones who match your political leanings take their PGCE?

 

My experience with the health service would would tell me that in general, the staff are 'left leaning' - but that could be because the kind of person who is that way inclined politically is more likely to be motivated to put the needs of people worse off than themselves above their bank balance. It's not like they joined and then had their arms twisted by some union reps.

What are you proposing? Some kind of political indoctrination programme for qualified teachers? Or would you only let the ones who match your political leanings take their PGCE?

 

My experience with the health service would would tell me that in general, the staff are 'left leaning' - but that could be because the kind of person who is that way inclined politically is more likely to be motivated to put the needs of people worse off than themselves above their bank balance. It's not like they joined and then had their arms twisted by some union reps.

 

Actually Kent, some good ideas!

 

Seriously, I think the work that this Govt are doing in taking away control from the local authorities and giving it back to parents should ensure that teachers don't have as much pull in future, which is why, presumably, the loony unions are so anti this Government.

Actually Kent, some good ideas!

 

Seriously, I think the work that this Govt are doing in taking away control from the local authorities and giving it back to parents should ensure that teachers don't have as much pull in future, which is why, presumably, the loony unions are so anti this Government.

Which changes are you talking about exactly? I'm not being an arse I genuinely don't know.

Which changes are you talking about exactly? I'm not being an arse I genuinely don't know.

Academies

Grammar schools

Faith schools

Free schools

 

 

And they announced in March that all schools would lose the link to the local authority, although this has gone a bit quiet

Which changes are you talking about exactly? I'm not being an arse I genuinely don't know.

Academies

Grammar schools

Faith schools

Free schools

 

 

And they announced in March that all schools would lose the link to the local authority, although this has gone a bit quiet

Academies

Grammar schools

Faith schools

Free schools

 

 

And they announced in March that all schools would lose the link to the local authority, although this has gone a bit quiet

So without LEA's - who takes responsibility for admissions to the schools for example? Or running things like school meals services?

Parents don't know their arse from their elbow in the main, the shittest teachers have probably forgot more than most parents know...

 

What's worse is the ones who tend to step forward often think of themselves that they've a Doctorate in Arse and Elbow Location.

Eton has 14 free scholarship places among its annual intake of 128.

The problem is that most of them are privileged anyway.

Boris J won one, and his 2 younger brothers also went to Eton (I'm not sure whether they had scholarships or not).

Kwasi Kwarteng, another Conservative MP, won such a place. As he was the son of 2 immigrant students from Ghana I'm pretty sure it was a case of a very bright non-rich child winning a place.

Eton, like almost all public schools, uses the Common Entrance examination. But they use a lower pass mark than most, because their fees are higher than most, so other than the free places the richest do tend to get in.

Millfield is another which charges very high fees, but gives sports scholarships to many who have established their ability in the state system. Gareth Edwards is but one example, coming from the valleys above Swansea.

 

I think that, in order to retain charitable status, all private schools should be obliged to offer at least 10% of places free of charge to students in the state system. This could be tiered, beginning at 5% and increasing by 1% over the following 5 years.

 

See now Malc - that's the voice of sense and reason not my inane babbling That would definitely be a step in the right direction.  

Corbyn is often mentioned as a grammar school boy, but little mention is made of the fact that his (left-wing) parents sent Jeremy and his 3 elder brothers to a fee-paying convent school and not to the local village primary. David, the eldest brother, passed the Wiltshire 11+ to attend Chippenham GS, but the second brother, Andrew, did not. His father, an outstanding electrical engineer with Westinghouse, was head-hunted by English Electric and stayed during the week at an old manor house which was then a B&B. Andrew was able to retake the 11+ in Shropshire and gained a place at Adams GS, as a weekly boarder, travelling back to Wiltshire at weekends with his father.

The father then managed to buy Yew Tree Manor, where he had been staying, as a family house. His mother insisted it be renamed Yew Tree House (the current owner reverted it to the previous name). So Piers and Jeremy followed the elder boys to Adams GS in Newport, Shropshire, after both had attended a fee-paying prep school in the town, and his mother taught Maths at Stafford GS. Part of his father's work for EE was in the saltmines (of Cheshire) investigating the potential use of semi-conductor rectifiers in electrolysis.

Why don't we extend this into other spheres? Let's get users telling other professionals how to do their jobs, we could have call-centre workers telling navvies what they're doing wrong when building that flyover, chef de partis consulting during gallstone removal procedures...

Edited September 15, 20169 yr by Youri McAnespie

You may have misread what I said about depoliticisation

 

The teaching profession are led by leftists. Many teachers are left leaning and this is what we need to change.

 

At the moment, because of this, teachers couldn't be trusted to run education, which is a shame.

 

Really - I thought we had a Tory Gov?  Yes, perhaps most teachers are left wing but it isn't teachers that run things at the level that dictates to the profession.  I guess I wasn't sure what you were saying then, really.

 

 Just to be clear I wouldn't class myself as left or right per se.  Extremes in general are not good!

 

If teachers, i.e. those who do the job, shouldn't run education who else is best qualified to do it?

 

Would you let plumbers, lawyers or engineers dictate the medical profession?  OK a bit silly but you get my meaning  . . . 

Parents don't know their arse from their elbow in the main, the shittest teachers have probably forgot more than most parents know...

 

What's worse is the ones who tend to step forward often think of themselves that they've a Doctorate in Arse and Elbow Location.

 

Even by your standards that is pathetic.

 

I used to live next to a couple who were both English teachers.

HE used to make job applications for HER, as she could not write business letters!

http://www.medicalrepublic.com.au/sydney-hospital-replace-doctors-parents-whove-done-research/

Really - I thought we had a Tory Gov? Yes, perhaps most teachers are left wing but it isn't teachers that run things at the level that dictates to the profession. I guess I wasn't sure what you were saying then, really.

 

Just to be clear I wouldn't class myself as left or right per se. Extremes in general are not good!

 

If teachers, i.e. those who do the job, shouldn't run education who else is best qualified to do it?

 

Would you let plumbers, lawyers or engineers dictate the medical profession? OK a bit silly but you get my meaning . . .

 

The politicisation of Junior Doctors is well under way

 

No doubt they'll be striking for black lives to matter soon

Even by your standards that is pathetic.

 

I used to live next to a couple who were both English teachers.

HE used to make job applications for HER, as she could not write business letters!

I know an accountant who's a binghead and has a penchant for shoving E's up his arse.

 

And what are 'my standards' anyway, I'll answer that, they're shite, but it's a football forum, not Any Questions or Hardtalk.

Edited September 15, 20169 yr by Youri McAnespie

Why don't we extend this into other spheres? Let's get users telling other professionals how to do their jobs, we could have call-centre workers telling navvies what they're doing wrong when building that flyover, chef de partis consulting during gallstone removal procedures...

It already happens when working for the council.

 

one woman in horridge was adamant water could flow uphill

Good for her, whilst you're at it there's two successive lights been out on Crescent Road for weeks - whole section of road is pitch black, they shouldn't have changed to LED - pass that on, and get it fixed before some young kiddie gets mown down (by me).

Edited September 15, 20169 yr by Youri McAnespie

http://www.medicalrepublic.com.au/sydney-hospital-replace-doctors-parents-whove-done-research/

 

Wind up?

They've obviously never seen 'Lorenzo's Oil', sarcy twats.

Wind up?

Yeah of course but there's still some parents out there who would agree that they know best!

The politicisation of Junior Doctors is well under way

 

No doubt they'll be striking for black lives to matter soon

 

Not sure what your point is . . . 

 

fwiw a question we could all ask is how bad for our health are our jobs?  In modern life how many illnesses are caused, or made worse, by the jobs we do?  H&S always focuses on the safety of the role not so much the health.

 

How many night shifts are damaging to a person long and short term?  What damage does sitting hunched at a desk all day do?   Stress etc.  These things need looking into.

 

I would say it's pretty important that doctors, nurses in particular are in prime condition when they go to work.   Are they not right to stand up for themselves and their conditions?  Cause if you think not then that's a very dodgy path we would go down . . .