Not sure if this has been brought up but I can't find it if it has...

 

Where do we all stand on this??

 

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, when I went to school (1995-2000) we were split into different sets for subjects based on ability. I.e maths set 1-7 (1 being the best and 7 the worst) so that you didn't have someone really good being held back by being in the same class as someone poor at it (and visa versa)

 

Surely grammar schools are just the same but grouping by district as appose to just within a school?

 

Also, as it stands to get into the best high school in Chorley (St Micheals) you have to go to church every week ffs. Same with the best primary schools. It doesn't matter if your Catholic, Jewish, Muslim etc etc as long as you attend every week and get your stamps

 

They are only doing this as they know a parent willing to go to church every week will also put a shift in teaching at home

 

I'd rather have an 11+ system / Grammar schools than the current system of faith taking precedence

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by birch-chorley

I'm all for it.

 

Bloke at work is church of England. Can only have 6 weeks out of the year missing church (as a family) or their daughters can't be guaranteed a place at their chosen secondary school.

 

They are also given 52 personalised donation envelopes every year and as people have been lacking in donations the priest has said they should all set up standing orders for £10 a week.

 

Fuck. That!

Can't understand how in this day and age religious schools haven't been banned.

Can't understand how in this day and age religious schools haven't been banned.

Correct. Teach that shit at home if you must.

Or how about just not sending your children to one if you feel that strongly about it.

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by DazBob

Or how about just not sending your children to one if you feel that strongly about it.

Then they'd have to mix with the brown folks...

Why should the rich and/or the religious have first dibs on a decent education?

 

I'm glad I don't have kids, piss poor educational standards and a popular culture and ethos that is largely moronic is a toxic mix. Kids aren't suddenly 'thicker' they're just being let down en masse by those who should be guiding them.

 

Look at anyone who's anybody's biographies on Wikipedia, it's notable just how many have had a private education...Maybe increase mobility by sending poor kids to some of these schools - an existing infrastructure.

Biggest problem these days is that for disruptive kids to be excluded, they near on have to be murderers. Its these who ruin any school for the others. Only private schools are allowed to exert proper discipline in this modern age.

I'm for it. As it stands you can buy a place by moving into a catchment area, or you can go to church every week, what a load of bollocks.

I went to De La Salle Grammar school in Salford and did pretty well for myself though i didn't go to Uni despite being offered a place. That experience shaped my view of education and when i had my kids i wanted to send them through the same system but Salford didn't have a Grammar school option. I chose to put them through the 11+ in Trafford and tutored them both for a year to prepare them for the exam. Thankfully both passed and they went to Loreto Grammar school (an all girls convent school) in Altrincham. That itself was a real challenge as it was a 30 mile round trip twice a day but their careers since have justified the investment in time and effort. My son made it clear that his choice was not for the 11+ but for the local Catholic comprehensive and he has achieved equally well but it was a very different experience.

Can't understand how in this day and age religious schools haven't been banned.

Faith schools but particularly Catholic schools are officially regarded as the best schools in the country

 

"But it has prevented new Catholic schools from opening, which are more successful, more popular and more ethnically diverse than other types of state school."

 

I accept that faith schools are not popular with some but results speak for themselves. I know i am an exception but as a practising Catholic i can appreciate that in a faith school whatever the persuasion provides a more structured learning environment...just my opinion mind

Edited September 10, 20169 yr by Salford Trotter

Would you put that down to a different style of discipline or because they hail Mary a lot?

Would you put that down to a different style of discipline or because they hail Mary a lot?

The faith elements of the education helps enormously as it builds an inherent respect for authority and the discipline helps to build a learning ethos. I am not suggesting that faith schools don't have issues, clearly some have but the facts suggest that they appear to perform better versus the national average

The education systems that work and the ones we are supposed to be looking to emulate  (Shangai, Finland) don't have any of this bollox.

 

We should be looking to raise standards for all kids rather than writing some poor kid off at the age of 10 because they had a bad couple of hours on one particular day.

Edited September 10, 20169 yr by mickbrown

I went to De La Salle Grammar school in Salford

I went to Clarendon on Churchill way.... Nvr did me eny arm

100% in support. Should never have moved away from the Grammar school system. For the rich my arse.

 

Hopefully, we can look forward to a future where so called intelligent folk no longer say 'fink' for 'think', 'fought' for 'thought' and 'free' for 'three'.

Who (on here) has said they're 'for the rich' (Grammar Schools)?

Not quite sure where I stand on this. In principle I agree with the ideal of a universal education. In practice I think that some more able kids are held back by secondary education as it stands now.

 

On the other hand the 'more able kids' probably aren't actually 'more able' but have just been born into more fortuitous circumstances. So in terms of equality of education I'm opposed. Having said that if I could have been sent to a grammar school instead of the 'Deane School of Academic Excellence' - I would have snatched your hand off. And the same for my son when he is old enough.

 

Very difficult issue and I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to it.

They're only doing it because currently there's a dearth of born scum made good they can wheel out when they want to cajole the workers. Previously they could point to someone like Bruce Oldfield or Alan Sugar and say "Oi, oiks, these did it, pull your fingers out". Now that's harder to do when even the bloke in charge of dolloping pomme puree onto plates in the canteen at Media City went to some nobby private school.

 

If they do it, they should have certain barring or veto measures in place, such as does the kid come from a home with an Aga, or do they holiday in the UK, if it's a lad has it been allowed to have long hair etc. A points system with a load of these criteria to veto their entry - otherwise the places will just be gobbled up by the usual suspects, rich twats who are too tight-fisted to stump up for private education.

 

Power to the people.

Who (on here) has said they're 'for the rich' (Grammar Schools)?

The noisy left on social media..

 

Its now wrong for people to want the best for their kids.. I went to a private (public) school and remember my parents working two jobs to manage that.

 

The current system has setted maths English and science, and pe anyway ( kids pick options). Isnt top set the same as taking the kids away.... the schools will be massivly affected by how their league tables look after though..

The faith elements of the education helps enormously as it builds an inherent respect for authority and the discipline helps to build a learning ethos. I am not suggesting that faith schools don't have issues, clearly some have but the facts suggest that they appear to perform better versus the national average

Agreed they are in many cases.

 

Should we have Muslim schools too then where acceptance into it is only allowed if you have been to the mosque every week?

Kids go to a very good Catholic school, for yoof it has been good, done ok academically and fit in well.

 

His sister it ain't worked out she simply does not fit in and IMO would be better at school focussed on her needs.

 

The problem with grammar schools is that they are seen as 'better' because the good students go there, good being defined as being able to pass a test aged 11 on certain subjects. So what happens to the rest ? Do they all get shipped off to the run down secondary modern ? Surely if we promote grammar schools you also have to develop appropriate schools for those that do not fit into grammar school criteria.

 

The other issue which applies now and will become exaggerated are academic league tables, a good school is measured by number of GCSE passes, rather than understanding that education is way more than about passing exams, kids end up being taught how to pSs exams rather understand and appreciate a subject.

 

I went to smithills when it was an old fashioned grammar school and was lucky that I got a decent education there. Doubt I would get the same there these days.

The education systems that work and the ones we are supposed to be looking to emulate (Shangai, Finland) don't have any of this bollox.

 

We should be looking to raise standards for all kids rather than writing some poor kid off at the age of 10 because they had a bad couple of hours on one particular day.

Exactly. That kid at 4 might not have been able to wipe his own arse with mum smacked up and dad nowhere to be seen, so their journey to reading and writing is much longer than Tarquinns with many more potholes.

 

So who has learned the most?

 

A results table will say Tarkers, ofsted will praise his school and teachers, whilst little jonny nobhead gets thrown another dozen migrant play mates. Tell him he's shit long enough and eventually he will think he's shit.

No link has ever been proven between genes and intelligence. As smiffs said nurture, effort, etc all develop children, so are you lucky enough to be born into a good family/area etc?

 

Major problem with comprehensives is they can't attract enough good graduate teachers. At a comp chances are your kid could be taught maths by someone who's highest qualification is a B at GCSE, that is going to cap learning. And that's it they are lucky enough to be taught by a maths specialist at all for the first 2/3 years.

Agreed they are in many cases.

 

Should we have Muslim schools too then where acceptance into it is only allowed if you have been to the mosque every week?

I disagree with ST. We've evolved enough now to be able to teach kids right from wrong in schools without having to shove mumbo jumbo down their necks. Maybe catholic schools not to the extent of Muslim and Jewish schools but we have a problem with a number of religious schools and what they do and don't teach in this country. There's even Christian a schools over here trying to teach kids creationism and we the tax payer are funding this shit.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11578432/Creationism-still-taught-in-faith-schools-despite-Government-funding-threat.html

I think the PM should be cracking on with planning for Brexit instead of trying to appease the right wing Tory traditionalists again.

 

After all, pandering to this group has created the Brexit planning work in the first place.