1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I'd also add there are a large number of folk itching to be less impacting upon the environment; we need a movement that more fits our needs rather than antagonises. You said yourself the biggest civil disobedience movement: folk don't want that, rather be part of a civilized movement.

Get it more mainstream, part of everyday life and at the centre of economic activity and presto, you're onto a winner.

 

I wouldn't disagree with much you've said in this post or the other one either. and you're spot on with the incentives point. I went along to the meeting out of pure interest and fear and I was quite surprised by the people I saw there and the change of tactics from the April protests. I still think whether or not you agree with the parking a yacht, that what hapened in April got a lot more people looking at the science and becoming aware. 

If like you say XR are only really antagonising the public then they're definitely doing the wrong thing. It's refreshing to see people are in agreement with the aims and it's just the tactics that are an issue. If this is public opinion then I hope we see a change in legislation soon once all the Brexit melarchy is done with. 

1 hour ago, Widnes Two Hats said:

móngs the lot of em, Boris isn't interested in a bunch of peasants setting up a tent village, he will take absolutely no notice whatsoever and the filthy fuckers will continue to inconvenience normal folk. The sooner fed up Jo Public start twatting them the better, make sure Jo wears a mask around his face and an Antifa badge and call it political violence then you'll get some support from the mingers/labour/unite. Alternatively, throw a milk shake over them each time you walk past, that seems perfectly acceptable behaviour these days

Never taken anti depressants and no young children

Shouldn't you be in the Free Tommy thread? 

I think people would be better focussed on whether the principle of what these people are protesting about is a valid one. Rather than their political persuasion or what type of trousers they wear, or whether you're annoyed by them.

We are talking about an existential threat to the only known habitable planet in the known universe. There is a scientific consensus - and science doesn't care whether you vote Labour or Conservative, whether you prefer Fred Perry or hand woven, rainbow coloured fisherman's pants. 

That should be all that matters.

1 hour ago, paulhanley said:

I think more action needs taking on climate change. However if there's one thing guaranteed to annoy me its scruffy professional protesters browbeating and lecturing. A number of them are in it more because they like the anti-capitalist element than the actual climate change element. If you want to drive folk away from the cause carry on behaving like smelly hippies, encouraging children to strike on school days and waving placards around. And David Attenborough is not a God.

I'm glad there are others out there who realises David isn't God. 

If XRs tactics are going to drive people away and piss them off then they need to rethink what they do. The only issue is we should have acted on climate change 20 years ago at least. But we've ignored it and politicans have ignored the science. So we're left in a situation where if we don't act now then we are genuinely fucked. So what tactics do you suggest the public need to do to persuade the government to act? Because they have done very little of what they promised since the Paris talks. I'm more asking because I'm still working out the answer myself.

Have to say though, I've got nothing against the kids striking if they choose to. It's their future and it's looking pretty short and pretty bleak right now. 

Can we not just pray a little harder?

Americans are praying that Dorian doesn't kill them, they seem confident.

You need Jesus.

10 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I think people would be better focussed on whether the principle of what these people are protesting about is a valid one. Rather than their political persuasion or what type of trousers they wear, or whether you're annoyed by them.

We are talking about an existential threat to the only known habitable planet in the known universe. There is a scientific consensus - and science doesn't care whether you vote Labour or Conservative, whether you prefer Fred Perry or hand woven, rainbow coloured fisherman's pants. 

That should be all that matters.

👏👏👏

4 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

I'm glad there are others out there who realises David isn't God. 

If XRs tactics are going to drive people away and piss them off then they need to rethink what they do. The only issue is we should have acted on climate change 20 years ago at least. But we've ignored it and politicans have ignored the science. So we're left in a situation where if we don't act now then we are genuinely fucked. So what tactics do you suggest the public need to do to persuade the government to act? Because they have done very little of what they promised since the Paris talks. I'm more asking because I'm still working out the answer myself.

Have to say though, I've got nothing against the kids striking if they choose to. It's their future and it's looking pretty short and pretty bleak right now. 

The reality is we needed to do what was agreed in the Paris agreement about 20 or 30 years ago and should have been building on it ever since.

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

Can we not just pray a little harder?

Americans are praying that Dorian doesn't kill them, they seem confident.

You need Jesus.

Right now - I'd argue that the chances of making a scientific discovery that points to evidence of intelligent design is greater than us finding the political will to solve the climate change issue. That's how desperate the situation is. So maybe praying is our best option.

Humans are dumb apes.

Just now, kent_white said:

Right now - I'd argue that the chances of making a scientific discovery that points to evidence of intelligent design is greater than us finding the political will to solve the climate change issue. That's how desperate the situation is. So maybe praying is our best option.

Humans are dumb apes.

Amen.

Don't forget to put all your folding money in the alms box on your way out.

Just now, Spider said:

Amen.

Don't forget to put all your folding money in the alms box on your way out.

On reflection I think my previous post might be the most depressing sentence I've ever written.

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

On reflection I think my previous post might be the most depressing sentence I've ever written.

 

Leave it all to the LORD-AHHH

 

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

Right now - I'd argue that the chances of making a scientific discovery that points to evidence of intelligent design is greater than us finding the political will to solve the climate change issue. That's how desperate the situation is. So maybe praying is our best option.

Humans are dumb apes.

I believe that fairly soon, a mainstream political leader will stick his head above the parapet and announce a whole policy system based around the environment without being frightened of being dismissed as a loon.

I've watched MPs debating this in parliament and there's a lot of agreement. 

Interestingly I'm quite pleased at the review of hs2, and some of the words used previously by gove when he was in post.

Small acorns and all that.

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I believe that fairly soon, a mainstream political leader will stick his head above the parapet and announce a whole policy system based around the environment without being frightened of being dismissed as a loon.

I've watched MPs debating this in parliament and there's a lot of agreement. 

Interestingly I'm quite pleased at the review of hs2, and some of the words used previously by gove when he was in post.

Small acorns and all that.

I think most people are you too frightened to comprehend the severity of the problem. It's psychologically easier to just to dismiss as a conspiracy or be fatalistic about it.

Politicians are no different from 99.9% of other human beings. And sadly our system promotes short term thinking.

2 hours ago, kent_white said:

I think people would be better focussed on whether the principle of what these people are protesting about is a valid one. Rather than their political persuasion or what type of trousers they wear, or whether you're annoyed by them.

We are talking about an existential threat to the only known habitable planet in the known universe. There is a scientific consensus - and science doesn't care whether you vote Labour or Conservative, whether you prefer Fred Perry or hand woven, rainbow coloured fisherman's pants. 

That should be all that matters.

Of course.

But, their message, as well as their hippyness, is also wrong.

They are anti-capitalist, as well as pro-environment. Only capitalism can save the planet. That's human nature. I'm not saying capitalism will save, but only capitalism has the potential.

5 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Of course.

But, their message, as well as their hippyness, is also wrong.

They are anti-capitalist, as well as pro-environment. Only capitalism can save the planet. That's human nature. I'm not saying capitalism will save, but only capitalism has the potential.

Big capitalist companies don't pay their fair share of taxes so I'm not exactly optimistic about their desire for doing the things necessary for saving the planet.

2 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Big capitalist companies don't pay their fair share of taxes so I'm not exactly optimistic about their desire for doing the things necessary for saving the planet.

I'm not disagreeing, but the only way is for businesses to invest and profit. I'm not predicting this happen.

I said a while ago that we needed a world Government, but we seem to drifting farther away from that.

Just now, boltondiver said:

I'm not disagreeing, but the only way is for businesses to invest and profit. I'm not predicting this happen.

I said a while ago that we needed a world Government, but we seem to drifting farther away from that.

If only there was a large political organisation that brought most of Europe together. 😁

7 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

If only there was a large political organisation that brought most of Europe together. 😁

ER sprayed their logo all over the security shutters at Bargain Booze in Horwich. If this is the sort of stuff the ER hierarchy condones, along with civil disobedience that stops normal folk going about their normal duties, then they can do one. It's that sort who tried to stop me from doing my job when they picketed, if that's what you want to call it, a civil engineering firm because they objected to their involvement with fracking.

 

I get their point, and i have a bit of sympathy, but don't disrupt my day and destroy neighbourhoods with graffiti. Spray your property if you want to spread the word.

Edited September 2, 20196 yr by Underpants

15 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Big capitalist companies don't pay their fair share of taxes so I'm not exactly optimistic about their desire for doing the things necessary for saving the planet.

That's why we need an ECO-nomy.

Nothing wrong with profit, but have it driven by ecologically sound living.

Largely, that will require a substantial move away from fossil fuel based economy, and products.

Make demand from customers and a prod from government to attack it from two fronts.

39 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Of course.

But, their message, as well as their hippyness, is also wrong.

They are anti-capitalist, as well as pro-environment. Only capitalism can save the planet. That's human nature. I'm not saying capitalism will save, but only capitalism has the potential.

I think technology is a big part of the answer. And capitalism is probably our best bet and finding that technology. Although the Chinese might disagree. But I'm not very optimistic unless we can somehow become much less resource intensive. And I'm not sure how well that equates with capitalism? So in some ways it's our best hope and our biggest hinderence. Which is why I'm not optimistic.

 

6 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I think technology is a big part of the answer. And capitalism is probably our best bet and finding that technology. Although the Chinese might disagree. But I'm not very optimistic unless we can somehow become much less resource intensive. And I'm not sure how well that equates with capitalism? So in some ways it's our best hope and our biggest hinderence. Which is why I'm not optimistic.

 

Totally agree

Just now, boltondiver said:

Totally agree

Which is why I think if you're going to have a 'cause' - the only really logical one is slowing down climate change. Everything else is a sideshow - apart from maybe antibiotic resistance and the threat of nuclear war.

Anyway - happy Monday!

9 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Which is why I think if you're going to have a 'cause' - the only really logical one is slowing down climate change. Everything else is a sideshow - apart from maybe antibiotic resistance and the threat of nuclear war.

Anyway - happy Monday!

Maybe

In 100 years, I hope people look back and wonder what the fuss was about!

4 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Maybe

In 100 years, I hope people look back and wonder what the fuss was about!

Sadly - I don't think that history will judge us kindly.