Are in Manchester today

Might pop down at lunchtime 

Wonder if they’ll take their plastic bottles home with them?

Important to draw a clear distinction between this lot and some of the kids genuinely trying to effect change. 

We need to change - but I'd agree that action like this alienates people. But Greta and the like are to be applauded for realising that our generation has completely failed them and they need to do things for themselves.

Completely agree that capitalism and industry is the only realistic way we can solve this but there are also social and cultural barriers to overcome. We can't simply sit smugly and wait for some massive scientific solution. We need to take action now and do much more than we are. Tax flights more - or introduce quotas - incentivise cleaner forms of transport - reduce meat consumption, reduce commuting. 

We can do all that with only a small impact on people's lives. 

Had they had a little gathering in Albert Square it wouldn't get a mention on here.

They've had them for years. The point with these protests is to inconvenience people so that the only way to make them go away is to actually make the changes.

MLK and his crew realised that asking nicely doesn't work only by putting people's noses out if joint will things happen.

They're not out to make friends they are out to get changes made.

1 minute ago, frank_spencer said:

Had they had a little gathering in Albert Square it wouldn't get a mention on here.

They've had them for years. The point with these protests is to inconvenience people so that the only way to make them go away is to actually make the changes.

MLK and his crew realised that asking nicely doesn't work only by putting people's noses out if joint will things happen.

They're not out to make friends they are out to get changes made.

You really believe that works?

Plenty of information in the media (more so than ever) about the risks, folk are increasingly aware and don't need this lot causing hassle.

Nob heads undertaking civil disobedience just puts people off.

Give people proper alternatives, incentivise industry and individuals, penalise those that don't conform where appropriate.

Dunno if it works or not I guess we'll find out.

But something needs to change and there's been little sign of real action until very very recently.

The parents of clinically diagnosed obsessed Greta should be procecuted to child neglect, using a minor as a mouth peice for their own views is shocking, she's been radicalised.

But, can somebody tell me when the extinction people intend to sail to China and India to set up tent villages there?

8 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Dunno if it works or not I guess we'll find out.

But something needs to change and there's been little sign of real action until very very recently.

Arguably the biggest impact has been the BBC documentaries highlighting the plastic issues in the sea and polluting industries, eg fashion.

Since then, the likes of ER seem to have come to the fore, so who is doing the leading?

I'd like some real action by govt with regard to imports from these countries/industries that don't give a fuck. Lobbying MPs etc can all help in this regard.

 

40 minutes ago, Widnes Two Hats said:

The parents of clinically diagnosed obsessed Greta should be procecuted to child neglect, using a minor as a mouth peice for their own views is shocking, she's been radicalised.

But, can somebody tell me when the extinction people intend to sail to China and India to set up tent villages there?

I would argue you have jumped to a lot of conclusions about Greta's situation. It was her decision to start the climate strike out of pure desperation and fear for her future. Which unless we change things, will not exist. It's also others who have obsessed over the Asperger’s diagnosis when they have had nowhere left to go. She has only responded by saying she feels it is more of a gift and that before the strike she felt very alone and is now happy to have more friends and sense of purpose. I read a wishy washy article about her being vulnerable, but she isn't Justin Bieber or some young fame obsessed footballer. She's stronger than people think and I reckon she knows what she's getting herself into. She's no saviour for sure, but she has my full respect for what she's achieved so far. 

I didn't know what direction this thread was going to take after I made my comment. All I can is it's been great to see that everyone is pretty much on board with the urgency of the situation and it definitely makes me feel more positive about the future. Feels much more constructive than the original arguments about what they were wearing or what they were drinking out of that day. Which is why I'm surprised you have gone for the 'why don't they all go to China' argument. That was easily thrown out the window during a news debate back in April. It's pointless.

The reality is that OUR govn is dangerously behind on its agreed Paris targets, investment funding and rewilding projects. Which is pure neglect and abuse of its citizens. I’m not disputing China and India are causing immense damage but they have planted far more carbon storing forests that we have in recent years. So why shouldn't people protest here? The problem won't be solved by sending a 'rent a mob' to some Chinese prisons (as funny as it would be for us all to see them there). It will be solved by brave countries being the first to take a hit for a habitable planet, investing in innovative technology, uniting global policies and refusing to trade with countries that are high emitters. That's what climate action groups like XR want to persuade our govn to do.

Surely the arguments are do XRs provocative tactics actually make any significant change? And do they have an anti-capitalist agenda that will fail to work? I’m still making my mind up on much of this and I’ve learnt a lot reading this thread. Ultimately I don’t think XR necessarily has an agenda to bring capitalism to its knees. I think we need sustainability investment and green jobs and that capitalism is the way to do that. But the other reality is that it is industries mad obsession with profit that has led to much of the current crisis. Producing too much of everything and causing wreck less damage in the name of prosperity and growth. Yes we need capitalism, but there are parts of that system that need to take a hard look at itself and we need laws that criminalise wasteful and damaging companies.

As for whether or not XRs tactics work… well it appears on this thread they are putting people off who care as much as them. But they worked for other social movements in the past. I’m still undecided.

Sorry for the essay  

1 hour ago, Widnes Two Hats said:

The parents of clinically diagnosed obsessed Greta should be procecuted to child neglect, using a minor as a mouth peice for their own views is shocking, she's been radicalised.

But, can somebody tell me when the extinction people intend to sail to China and India to set up tent villages there?

This is absolute nonsense. 

20 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

This is absolute nonsense. 

Well you are the grand master on every subject known to modern man so it must be, because you say so

Edited September 3, 20196 yr by Widnes Two Hats

Trouble is LW, that too often protest groups like this often become politicised too. Only have to look at placards and banners etc to see. It puts people off and alienates.

I agree about politicians falling behind, though this seems to run throughout our system and no doubt other nations too.

Hence my, and others' assertions that our economy as a whole must be focussed around protection of he environment.

3 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

This is absolute nonsense. 

I can't believe you (even you) said that

19 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Hence my, and others' assertions that our economy as a whole must be focussed around protection of he environment.

Agreed. Brexit (shit I said it) is a needle in the haystack compared to this. Let's hope we can all get on with voting/campaigning for this kind of economy to materialise asap. 

54 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Agreed. Brexit (shit I said it) is a needle in the haystack compared to this. Let's hope we can all get on with voting/campaigning for this kind of economy to materialise asap. 

Yes. No reason folk can't make money, but it might mean a few compromises in life: a little less choice and less wastage.

Why should having Asperger's preclude you from being an advocate for an issue?

On 04/09/2019 at 13:39, kent_white said:

Why should having Asperger's preclude you from being an advocate for an issue?

 

.

Edited January 24, 20215 yr by Traf

18 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Why should having Asperger's preclude you from being an advocate for an issue?

Not sure it does?

I have a niece with it. She's scared of apples and fruit in general and has all sorts of strange ideas/habits. 

She's also bright enough to understand stuff, perhaps just sometimes takes things to extremes.

Just now, Traf said:

 

My daughter has Aspergers and I'm not sure it should preclude you from anything.

Absolutely.

I reckon there's a bit of an "oddity" in most of us, for want of a better description. Look at the superstitious nature of cricketers: no logic behind it!

 

4 hours ago, Traf said:

My daughter has Aspergers and I'm not sure it should preclude you from anything.

 

4 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not sure it does?

I have a niece with it. She's scared of apples and fruit in general and has all sorts of strange ideas/habits. 

She's also bright enough to understand stuff, perhaps just sometimes takes things to extremes.

I agree with both of you. And I think Greta Thunberg is acting perfectly rationally given the extent of the problem.

It was the suggestion that she'd been 'radicalised' by her parents that pissed me off. And that having Asperger's somehow made her voice less important than someone else's.

Maybe not the best term: I know that some of my niece's issues are a concern to mum and dad, and have to be eased as much as possible so as not to become all encompassing.

Ocd with regards to excessive handwashing owing to over concern about bacteria.

I suppose it's possible the young lass Greta could become unhealthily obsessed- dunno really. To be honest I didn't know she had an issue until I saw this thread.

Maybe traf could shed some light as to when and if there becomes a point when you have to try to step in?

I'd be happy to try to help, but we've never really had to step in with Mia.

She's high-functioning and therefore academically strong and articulate. Her major issue is not dealing with strangers too well and having what I call "social Tourettes"

On 04/09/2019 at 17:52, London Wanderer said:

Agreed. Brexit (shit I said it) is a needle in the haystack compared to this. Let's hope we can all get on with voting/campaigning for this kind of economy to materialise asap. 

Thank fuck they're getting shorter.

2 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Thank fuck they're getting shorter.

Aye, me too.

14 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Aye, me too.

 

Really? Have you heard of HGH?

12 hours ago, bolty58 said:

 

Really? Have you heard of HGH?

Course... I'm always trying to shorten my arguments, more than a paragraph is enough to put anyone off. Failed terribly on this thread. 

Human Growth Hormone?

Aaaah, I apologise then. I thought you meant you were getting shorter. In that case ignore the HGH thing which you successfully identified.

I shall save my water cannon and baton charging for protestors preferences for a later date.