How come there isn't a thread for this ?

Is it because they've revealed their true colours, excuse the deliberate pun.

Folk were warned re their true intentions, but as always called racist by the naive.

58 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

So are we still all racists then If we don’t like the taking of the knee gesture? Save me reading back through?

Why is that you do not like taking the knee gesture ? 
Because it supports BLM ? 
Because it is a part of an anti discrimination campaign ? 
You do not like people kneeling ?  (at my age it is more the standing up than the kneeling that is the issue) 

3 minutes ago, Ani said:

Why is that you do not like taking the knee gesture ? 
Because it supports BLM ? 
Because it is a part of an anti discrimination campaign ? 
You do not like people kneeling ?  (at my age it is more the standing up than the kneeling that is the issue) 

I rightly or wrongly associate it with very unpleasant scenes earlier this year and I also saw, as did many, the mission statement on the BLM website. Those views haven’t changed they have just removed it from the public eye. I think certain people were very quick to associate themselves with the BLM movement without understanding what they were about. Which later became clear and they should have backed away.
 

also kneeling is a sign of subservience is it not? Would appear to be a strange thing to do. 
 

im all for booting racism out of society. Discrimination has no place in any form whatsoever in the modern world. 
 

but as I’ve been told on here my viewpoint is wrong, doesn’t matter and means I’m a racist. So I’m a racist. Simple
 

 

4 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I rightly or wrongly associate it with very unpleasant scenes earlier this year and I also saw, as did many, the mission statement on the BLM website. Those views haven’t changed they have just removed it from the public eye. I think certain people were very quick to associate themselves with the BLM movement without understanding what they were about. Which later became clear and they should have backed away.
 

also kneeling is a sign of subservience is it not? Would appear to be a strange thing to do. 
 

im all for booting racism out of society. Discrimination has no place in any form whatsoever in the modern world. 
 

but as I’ve been told on here my viewpoint is wrong, doesn’t matter and means I’m a racist. So I’m a racist. Simple
 

 

If people’s genuine reason for opposing taking a knee is related to BLM not sure how that can be racist. 
 

Do I think that some people (not you) will use any excuse not to support an anti discrimination campaign. 100% they will. Too political, too frequent , stuffed down our throats, millionaire footballers preaching etc etc. Let’s be honest some people just do not like darkies do they ? Or gay folk ? Or anyone foreign ? Or Muslims ? In fact anyone different. 

42 minutes ago, Ani said:

If people’s genuine reason for opposing taking a knee is related to BLM not sure how that can be racist. 
 

Do I think that some people (not you) will use any excuse not to support an anti discrimination campaign. 100% they will. Too political, too frequent , stuffed down our throats, millionaire footballers preaching etc etc. Let’s be honest some people just do not like darkies do they ? Or gay folk ? Or anyone foreign ? Or Muslims ? In fact anyone different. 

Of course, plenty people are racist and that needs to be removed from society 

The BLM U.K. website (no affiliation to the US one) only seems to talk about White vs Non White racism 

I’d like to know their views on the racial discrimination against White Gypsies and white Jews

Seems nobody cares about racism towards Gypsies (according to the Guardian), however we know that our Jewish compatriots have received a lot of racial abuse recently from many people on the far left of the political spectrum, many of which  will be ardent supporters of BLM I’m sure 

Is it really about ending all racists abuse or is it more selective than that based solely on skin colour? 

58 minutes ago, Ani said:

If people’s genuine reason for opposing taking a knee is related to BLM not sure how that can be racist. 
 

Do I think that some people (not you) will use any excuse not to support an anti discrimination campaign. 100% they will. Too political, too frequent , stuffed down our throats, millionaire footballers preaching etc etc. Let’s be honest some people just do not like darkies do they ? Or gay folk ? Or anyone foreign ? Or Muslims ? In fact anyone different. 

Of course there will be people who fit that description. Will there have been someone at millwall who fits that? Probably. Will there be people at the unibol who fit that also? Probably. 

what folk have tried to do on here is explain why in their own words they disagree with it. It’s been shot down by certain posters. 
 

is it ok to just call people racist because they happen to not agree with the taking of the knee? Absolutely not. And that’s the state of play on this board. The racist tag is banded about far too easily on here without any foundation other than holding a different opinion. 

I disagree with the taking of the knee  but would I boo it? No  would I turn my back or anything like that? No  

 

 

2 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

Of course, plenty people are racist and that needs to be removed from society 

The BLM U.K. website (no affiliation to the US one) only seems to talk about White vs Non White racism 

I’d like to know their views on the racial discrimination against White Gypsies and white Jews

Seems nobody cares about racism towards Gypsies (according to the Guardian), however we know that our Jewish compatriots have received a lot of racial abuse recently from many people on the far left of the political spectrum, many of which  will be ardent supporters of BLM I’m sure 

Is it really about ending all racists abuse or is it more selective than that based solely on skin colour? 

yes and no

only thing I'd say there is

why did Band Aid only send money to starving kids in Africa? what about Asian kids?

edit - they spcecifically targetted famine in Ethiopia, so other starving kids in Africa got overlooked too

why do Cancer Research ignore other illnesses? can they not give some money to lesser supported illnesses?

why do the Green Party only campaign for Green Issues when there are other societal issues that need sorting?

I think an all encompassing movement striving for equality across all communities all over the UK/world might spread themselves a bit thin

plus, what experience does a black person have when it comes to fighting for rights for gypsies, or jews etc

why don't the jews and gypsises fight for their own rights?

black people are fighting for equality based on their own experiences, rather than assuming what others are going through - but I'm pretty sure they find all forms of racism abhorent

I think they did acknowledge the palestinian struggle, but that's not everyones cup of tea either

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by ZicoKelly

1 hour ago, Escobarp said:

Of course there will be people who fit that description. Will there have been someone at millwall who fits that? Probably. Will there be people at the unibol who fit that also? Probably. 

what folk have tried to do on here is explain why in their own words they disagree with it. It’s been shot down by certain posters. 
 

is it ok to just call people racist because they happen to not agree with the taking of the knee? Absolutely not. And that’s the state of play on this board. The racist tag is banded about far too easily on here without any foundation other than holding a different opinion. 

I disagree with the taking of the knee  but would I boo it? No  would I turn my back or anything like that? No  

 

 

I agree that the racist tag is chucked around too easily. 
On taking a knee it frustrates me that the important message about equality gets diluted by the association with BLM (rightly or wrongly) 

However if you go through the thread there have been other reasons given for not supporting the knee. Too political , too often, not needed, thrust down our throats, black power hand clench, the act of taking a knee and millionaire footballers preaching. Along with the argument that we do not have an issue with racism in this country especially in sport. 

1 minute ago, Ani said:

I agree that the racist tag is chucked around too easily. 
On taking a knee it frustrates me that the important message about equality gets diluted by the association with BLM (rightly or wrongly) 

However if you go through the thread there have been other reasons given for not supporting the knee. Too political , too often, not needed, thrust down our throats, black power hand clench, the act of taking a knee and millionaire footballers preaching. Along with the argument that we do not have an issue with racism in this country especially in sport. 

I can only comment on my own views on it. I can’t speak for others who hold differing views. But it appears anyone who holds a view that doesn’t support the knee is classified as a racist by some that’s poor form. But it is to be expected sadly 

30 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

yes and no

only thing I'd say there is

why did Band Aid only send money to starving kids in Africa? what about Asian kids?

edit - they spcecifically targetted famine in Ethiopia, so other starving kids in Africa got overlooked too

why do Cancer Research ignore other illnesses? can they not give some money to lesser supported illnesses?

why do the Green Party only campaign for Green Issues when there are other societal issues that need sorting?

I think an all encompassing movement striving for equality across all communities all over the UK/world might spread themselves a bit thin

plus, what experience does a black person have when it comes to fighting for rights for gypsies, or jews etc

why don't the jews and gypsises fight for their own rights?

black people are fighting for equality based on their own experiences, rather than assuming what others are going through - but I'm pretty sure they find all forms of racism abhorent

I think they did acknowledge the palestinian struggle, but that's not everyones cup of tea either

I get all those points 

perhaps I wasn’t clear though 

On the BLM U.K. web site they on one hand talk about ending all racial discrimination but on the other hand talk solely about white oppression on Black people 

It’s contradictory on the same web site 

Your not looking to end all racial discrimination if your predominant belief is that having white skin is a privilege and racial discrimination only works one way (whites on non whites) 

 

6 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I get all those points 

perhaps I wasn’t clear though 

On the BLM U.K. web site they on one hand talk about ending all racial discrimination but on the other hand talk solely about white oppression on Black people 

It’s contradictory on the same web site 

Your not looking to end all racial discrimination if your predominant belief is that having white skin is a privilege and racial discrimination only works one way (whites on non whites) 

 

maybe because that's what they experience themselves in the UK

they could say "we want to end racial discrimiantion in the UK for blacks, chinese and asians"

but the chinese might then say "don't worry about us, we're ok" - as you've pointed out many times with your stats on how well they do

I don't necessarily agree with it, but i get their point of view and why they don't need to speak up for everyone but themselves

there are though others who do that

https://www.sariweb.org.uk/

https://voice4change-england.com/

https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/

never heard of them, maybe they don't do enough, or maybe they do enough not to warrant another catch all charity, dunno

3 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

maybe because that's what they experience themselves in the UK

they could say "we want to end racial discrimiantion in the UK for blacks, chinese and asians"

but the chinese might then say "don't worry about us, we're ok" - as you've pointed out many times with your stats on how well they do

I don't necessarily agree with it, but i get their point of view and why they don't need to speak up for everyone but themselves

there are though others who do that

https://www.sariweb.org.uk/

https://voice4change-england.com/

https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/

never heard of them, maybe they don't do enough, or maybe they do enough not to warrant another catch all charity, dunno

That’s all fine 

I just think that BLM shouldn't say that they ‘want to end all racism’ then 

Especially given a lot at the extreme end of the movement will likely hold racist views of Jews 

 

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by birch-chorley

36 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

That’s all fine 

I just think that BLM shouldn't say that they ‘want to end all racism’ then 

Especially given a lot at the extreme end of the movement will likely hold racist views of Jews 

 

Why would they hold racist views on Jews ? 
 

You keep quoting their website. Evidence ? 
 

Anti Israel Pro Palestine is not the same as racist. 

31 minutes ago, Ani said:

Why would they hold racist views on Jews ? 
 

You keep quoting their website. Evidence ? 
 

Anti Israel Pro Palestine is not the same as racist. 

I’ve copy and pasted from their U.K. BLM web site a lot over the past couple of days, I’m not making it up...

https://blacklivesmatter.uk

‘If black and brown people are old enough to experience racism then white children are old enough to be taught and learn about racism’ 

Quite right, but surely many white children will have received racism, particularly Jews, so all Children should surely be taught about racism? Quite a lot of people have said that footballers are supporting BLM as an anti racism movement, implying it’s against all racism, the site doesn’t give that impression 

‘Black history and white history are entwined with white pillage. White domination, white supremacy, white power and white denial of atrocities against black bodies handed down by the white hand’

A lot of the stuff seems highly targeted towards white on Black racism rather than a broader anti racism message that is apparently what footballers are supporting 

‘The past (silenced and hardly spoken of, or falsified and selectively highlighted) and current history of white power, supremacy and domination over black people and nations has to be reckoned with and reconciled. The action of making amends for wrongs and injuries has to be resolved to have any chance of ever moving forward. 

Rhetoric and virtual signalling are not enough for the appalling and shameful period of British history. It is not sufficient to simply say "That was the past, let's move on", when the domination of black bodies continues to exist in modern times. These are the days of reckoning.’

With regards my point on anti semitism, if it’s fair enough to say that some people who oppose BLM are racist (which it is), then it’s also quite likely that some BLM supporters are also racist, all be it directed at other groups, namely Jews. We have just had a major report from the Human Rights watchdog calling out a major political party (Labour) for racism against this group. Most of the culprits of which come from the far left of the Labour Party, the same groups who tend to be supportive of BLM  

From the BBC 

 In October 2020, a report by the UK's human rights watchdog found Labour to be responsible for "unlawful" acts of harassment and discrimination during Jeremy Corbyn's four-and a-half years as party leader.

In summary, we do need a movement that challenges all racism, footballers should support that, is BLM the right movement? That’s a no for me 

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by birch-chorley

How about. Anybody British person who feels enough collective shame for crimes against humanity commited centuries before they were born can apply to have an extra 25% taxed from their wages and sent to redress the balance in the countries we used to occupy? 

That way the players/lefties/cultural Marxists/snowflakes can put their money where their mouths are and everybody who thinks it's a load of old bollocks doesn't have to.

I imagine they'd soon pipe down.

 

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by kent_white

12 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

 

In summary, we do need a movement that challenges all racism, footballers should support that, is BLM the right movement? That’s a no for me 

This. Let’s get on with the linked arms stance. Most people can see that kneeling is associated with BLM and many fans aren’t supportive of certain elements of that. People can say “oh but kneeling is against all racism” yet  you have the media, players and our own club community officer saying kneeling is in support of BLM what are we to think? 

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by royal white

9 minutes ago, royal white said:

This. Let’s get on with the linked arms stance. Most people can see that kneeling is associated with BLM and many fans aren’t supportive of certain elements of that. People can say “oh but kneeling is against all racism” yet  you have the media, players and our own club community officer saying kneeling is in support of BLM what are we to think? 

Seems a decent compromise. Not sure if we could (or should) stop someone kneeling if they really wanted to though? But at least it won't be some sort of expectation.

 

 

28 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I’ve copy and pasted from their U.K. BLM web site a lot over the past couple of days, I’m not making it up...

https://blacklivesmatter.uk

‘If black and brown people are old enough to experience racism then white children are old enough to be taught and learn about racism’ 

Quite right, but surely many white children will have received racism, particularly Jews, so all Children should surely be taught about racism? Quite a lot of people have said that footballers are supporting BLM as an anti racism movement, implying it’s against all racism, the site doesn’t give that impression 

‘Black history and white history are entwined with white pillage. White domination, white supremacy, white power and white denial of atrocities against black bodies handed down by the white hand’

A lot of the stuff seems highly targeted towards white on Black racism rather than a broader anti racism message that is apparently what footballers are supporting 

‘The past (silenced and hardly spoken of, or falsified and selectively highlighted) and current history of white power, supremacy and domination over black people and nations has to be reckoned with and reconciled. The action of making amends for wrongs and injuries has to be resolved to have any chance of ever moving forward. 

Rhetoric and virtual signalling are not enough for the appalling and shameful period of British history. It is not sufficient to simply say "That was the past, let's move on", when the domination of black bodies continues to exist in modern times. These are the days of reckoning.’

With regards my point on anti semitism, if it’s fair enough to say that some people who oppose BLM are racist (which it is), then it’s also quite likely that some BLM supporters are also racist, all be it directed at other groups, namely Jews. We have just had a major report from the Human Rights watchdog calling out a major political party (Labour) for racism against this group. Most of the culprits of which come from the far left of the Labour Party, the same groups who tend to be supportive of BLM  

From the BBC 

 In October 2020, a report by the UK's human rights watchdog found Labour to be responsible for "unlawful" acts of harassment and discrimination during Jeremy Corbyn's four-and a-half years as party leader.

In summary, we do need a movement that challenges all racism, footballers should support that, is BLM the right movement? That’s a no for me 

So nothing that is actually anti Jewish from BLM ? You are assuming that ? 
 

RW will be along soon to chastise you. 

3 minutes ago, Ani said:

So nothing that is actually anti Jewish from BLM ? You are assuming that ? 
 

RW will be along soon to chastise you. 

It’s an assumption yes 

Just like it’s an assumption to say that some of the fans booing at Millwall will in fact be racist (which has been made numerous times) 

Both are fair assumptions for me 

Going off the tone of that U.K. BLM web site, I’d imagine who ever wrote it holds racist views of White People in general 

The tone is awful for an organisation that many believe stands for ending all racial discrimination 

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by birch-chorley

18 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Seems a decent compromise. Not sure if we could (or should) stop someone kneeling if they really wanted to though? But at least it won't be some sort of expectation.

 

 

And with that you will more than likely get some boos and we are back to square one. 

11 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

It’s an assumption yes 

Just like it’s an assumption to say that some of the fans booing at Millwall will in fact be racist (which has been made numerous times) 

Both are fair assumptions for me 

Going off the tone of that U.K. BLM web site, I’d imagine who ever wrote it holds racist views of White People in general 

The tone is awful for an organisation that many believe stands for ending all racial discrimination 

There are a lot of assumptions here.  The biggest one being your constant referring back to the kneeling being for the movement/organisation rather than the possibility that the majority of those kneeling are doing it just for the slogan.

Unless every club and/or every player comes out and explains exactly what they're doing it for then nobody will ever know.

Just leave them to it I say.  If that's what they want to do then let them do it.  If you don't like it just keep a dignified silence and respect their right to do it.

1 minute ago, DazBob said:

There are a lot of assumptions here.  The biggest one being your constant referring back to the kneeling being for the movement/organisation rather than the possibility that the majority of those kneeling are doing it just for the slogan.

Unless every club and/or every player comes out and explains exactly what they're doing it for then nobody will ever know.

Just leave them to it I say.  If that's what they want to do then let them do it.  If you don't like it just keep a dignified silence and respect their right to do it.

Fair points 

I still think it’s within a persons right to verbally oppose someone taking the knee if they attribute it to a wider political movement (without being labelled a racist, which as you say is an assumption) 

1 hour ago, birch-chorley said:

That’s all fine 

I just think that BLM shouldn't say that they ‘want to end all racism’ then 

Especially given a lot at the extreme end of the movement will likely hold racist views of Jews 

 

conversley, here's a jewish movement who want equal human rights

https://www.renecassin.org/

they talk about human rights, but keep banging on about Jews 

why?

René Cassin is a charity working to promote and protect universal human rights, drawing on Jewish experience and values.

however, it's clear from the site content they support equality for all

I think that's what the BLM movement is also about, based on their own expereience and values, I don't think the extreme way some folk went about it did them any good at all, as illustrated by this thread

I supoort anti racism, and if BLM have issues they feel they need to resolve, they can go for it, I won't stop them, let them crack on and see how far it gets them, I certainly don't think they are in it for themselves

they did come out in support for palestine, then got branded anti semite

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20200701-the-black-lives-matter-movements-stand-with-palestinians-has-a-history/

seems you can't win sometimes

also, interesting from that article that BLM UK has been around 4 years (never heard of them till now myself), and this line:

Although Black Lives Matter is a movement rather than a single organisation, there are also specific groups which call themselves "Black Lives Matter", or some variation thereof. This can sometimes be a little confusing.

as for the knee, I also agree, do something else, make it clear it's anti racism, but, if some folk still want to take the knee, whatever, they can

51 minutes ago, kent_white said:

How about. Anybody British person who feels enough collective shame for crimes against humanity commited centuries before they were born can apply to have an extra 25% taxed from their wages and sent to redress the balance in the countries we used to occupy? 

That way the players/lefties/cultural Marxists/snowflakes can put their money where their mouths are and everybody who thinks it's a load of old bollocks doesn't have to.

I imagine they'd soon pipe down.

 

Very good idea pal 👍 

 

Always knew you were a sleeper amongst their ranks 😉 

31 minutes ago, DazBob said:

There are a lot of assumptions here.  The biggest one being your constant referring back to the kneeling being for the movement/organisation rather than the possibility that the majority of those kneeling are doing it just for the slogan.

Unless every club and/or every player comes out and explains exactly what they're doing it for then nobody will ever know.

Just leave them to it I say.  If that's what they want to do then let them do it.  If you don't like it just keep a dignified silence and respect their right to do it.

 

32 minutes ago, DazBob said:

There are a lot of assumptions here.  The biggest one being your constant referring back to the kneeling being for the movement/organisation rather than the possibility that the majority of those kneeling are doing it just for the slogan.

Unless every club and/or every player comes out and explains exactly what they're doing it for then nobody will ever know.

Just leave them to it I say.  If that's what they want to do then let them do it.  If you don't like it just keep a dignified silence and respect their right to do it.

How hard would that be? E mail to all Season ticket holders and an announcement before KO at the first game. Simple. 
 

Only thing I’ve seen from Bolton so far is from the community officer praising the Kneeling for BLM. 

7 minutes ago, royal white said:

 

How hard would that be? E mail to all Season ticket holders and an announcement before KO at the first game. Simple. 
 

Give over.   That's never going to happen, or nor should it need to just so that someone in the stands knows whether they should boo or not.