Is it time to just hand it back to Ireland?

Anyone that is of British allegiance can be resettled in Glasgow.

This would help with Brexit and let’s be honest, we need to move on from this tedious issue. On that I think we all agree.

So - give it back, or carry on dwelling on the past?

6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I'm not so sure- it's only symbolic after all.

Moreover, should the EU and the British government act and get it sorted, then the issue is resolved and they'd have no reason to stay away.

Very interesting interview with senior DUP official who admitted that unionism had shot itself in the foot at the elections, and a call for less internal division. Sort that out and they'd likely be back with the most seats anyway next time round.

I’d hope Sinn Fein and DUP both lose votes over the coming years to parties who chose to attract votes from both sides of the religious divide. 

29 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

NI is part of UK and as such the current interpretation of the protocol by the EU isn’t working and needs changing, if the protocol is amended to make importation easier and less costly what agenda would Sinn Fein find to oppose that? 

 

Brexit isn’t compatible with the GFA. That has been known about since the whole thing started. The DUP should either accept the protocol or should face the reality that NI becomes part of a united Ireland. 

14 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’d hope Sinn Fein and DUP both lose votes over the coming years to parties who chose to attract votes from both sides of the religious divide. 

That’s happening already to a point 

the alliance party did really well in the last elections and took seats from both sides so there’s hope 
 

 

 

3 minutes ago, fatolive said:

That’s happening already to a point 

the alliance party did really well in the last elections and took seats from both sides so there’s hope 
 

 

 

I did see that, long overdue that the religious division was left back in the dark ages. 

Edited May 16, 20224 yr by Mounts Kipper

31 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I'm not so sure- it's only symbolic after all.

Moreover, should the EU and the British government act and get it sorted, then the issue is resolved and they'd have no reason to stay away.

Very interesting interview with senior DUP official who admitted that unionism had shot itself in the foot at the elections, and a call for less internal division. Sort that out and they'd likely be back with the most seats anyway next time round.

 

the DUP see it as more than symbolic, not sure if playing even a symbolic second fiddle will sit well with them or their support and they’ll find a reason to collapse it again 

more moderate unionists and the alliance are splitting the vote, but the fact Sinn Fein are now larger Will probably garner some of those floating between moderate and hardline back to whoever they think has the best chance of defeating SinnFein 

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Good news that the government now look like they are ready to act on the border, get ready for the hissy fit from Sinn Fein, Ireland & The EU throwing toys out of pram trade war. 

Funny you talking about "hissy fits" when Brexit was the biggest "hissy fit" of all time. 😆

this lawyer worked on brexit negotiations and explains why the UK government position is nonsense 

 

7 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

 

If the protocol isn’t working and the EU aren’t willing to amend so that it works properly what are the UK supposed to do? Suck it up forever!! 

21 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

If the protocol isn’t working and the EU aren’t willing to amend so that it works properly what are the UK supposed to do? Suck it up forever!! 

The EU are the only party to make offers to overcome some of the issues. The UK government have made no suggestions. 

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

The EU are the only party to make offers to overcome some of the issues. The UK government have made no suggestions. 

🤣😂🤣

Edited May 17, 20224 yr by Mounts Kipper

The EU are simply sticking to what was agreed.

Like when you say to someone "I'll do that" and you sorta kinda expect them "do that"

When they suddenly say "I'm not doing that" it should come as no surprise that things go to shit.

Boris is rudderless and hopelessly out of his depth.

That he has surrounded himself with toadying hand wringers will now bite him hard.

If he'd started all this by saying "I'll do whatever I want and fuck you" I'd actually have a bit of respect for him.

Instead, he's just twisted and turned at every opportunity in order to keep his job.

He's a cunt. It really is that simple.

At some point brexiteers have to accept brexit is not compatible with the GFA. Either accept the protocol or accept NI is better being part of a united Ireland. You can’t have it both ways. If they renege on the deal they signed it is likely to cause a trade war which will impact the whole of the UK.

17 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

At some point brexiteers have to accept brexit is not compatible with the GFA. Either accept the protocol or accept NI is better being part of a united Ireland. You can’t have it both ways. If they renege on the deal they signed it is likely to cause a trade war which will impact the whole of the UK.

Or the EU see sense and stop interpreting rules in a totally unrealistic way... of course with you its always our fault. Brainwashed!   

I think it is the fact that the government's own impact assessment of the protocol said this would happen yet Boris and hardened Brexiters in the Tory party blatantly lied to everyone to get it through.

You can't then complain when folk and the EU pull them up on it.

I think some sort of arrangement will be had eventually but I don't think anything will appease the DUP mentalists.

23 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Or the EU see sense and stop interpreting rules in a totally unrealistic way... of course with you its always our fault. Brainwashed!   

Pesky rules and international laws eh!😂

12 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

I think it is the fact that the government's own impact assessment of the protocol said this would happen yet Boris and hardened Brexiters in the Tory party blatantly lied to everyone to get it through.

You can't then complain when folk and the EU pull them up on it.

I think some sort of arrangement will be had eventually but I don't think anything will appease the DUP mentalists.

Correct, most people can now see this for what it is.

43 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Or the EU see sense and stop interpreting rules in a totally unrealistic way... of course with you its always our fault. Brainwashed!   

If I buy a dozen teatowels off you and you say I owe you £20 for them, but then I decide I'm only giving you a tenner, and only when I can be arsed, would you accept my terms?

Would. You. Fuck.

15 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Pesky rules and international laws eh!😂

Except the treaty has a provision to change and amend the protocol and a clause (article 16) that allows taking unilateral action to take safeguard measures if either party concludes that the deal is leading to serious practical problems or causing diversion of trade, this is exactly the place we are now in. Obviously you missed that clause in the pesky international laws.  

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Except the treaty has a provision to change and amend the protocol and a clause (article 16) that allows taking unilateral action to take safeguard measures if either party concludes that the deal is leading to serious practical problems or causing diversion of trade, this is exactly the place we are now in. Obviously you missed that clause in the pesky international laws.  

The protocol is doing what it was intended to do, protecting the integrity of the EU single market and safeguarding the peace and security created by the GFA. We signed it and should now honour the agreement. Any modifications should be achieved by negotiation.

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Except the treaty has a provision to change and amend the protocol and a clause (article 16) that allows taking unilateral action to take safeguard measures if either party concludes that the deal is leading to serious practical problems or causing diversion of trade, this is exactly the place we are now in. Obviously you missed that clause in the pesky international laws.  

Quite.

Something that was written and agreed by both sides. Part of the agreement. 

So utilising this is sticking to the agreement. 

I had a read of it yesterday- lots of legal terminology obviously, but that's the effect of the article.

Ultimately, blame layers will continue to do just that. However the GFA has within it an agreement that all parties will be represented and respected, irrespective of size. Thus, if one or more groups have a grievance then the GFA isn't being properly fulfilled. 

Therefore get the necessary changes, which they all want to get costs down, and move on to getting stormont up and running.

23 hours ago, fatolive said:

 

the DUP see it as more than symbolic, not sure if playing even a symbolic second fiddle will sit well with them or their support and they’ll find a reason to collapse it again 

more moderate unionists and the alliance are splitting the vote, but the fact Sinn Fein are now larger Will probably garner some of those floating between moderate and hardline back to whoever they think has the best chance of defeating SinnFein 

You clearly come at this from one side.

I don't, so when I see a senior unionist say the positions are equivalent, then that's fine by me.

The position only comes about as a result of gaining more seats, which is what the same individual was bemoaning. He fully accepted that splitting themselves had lost them control.

To suggest they will keep looking to collapse it doesn't stand up to scrutiny: both sides have done it before and perhaps they will both do again. 

Should the sensible resolution to the protocol issue be found, and the costs removed, then all the elected members have got a better situation to be a part of. If the unionists continue to cause problems after that, then they will haemorrhage votes in future.

10 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Quite.

Something that was written and agreed by both sides. Part of the agreement. 

So utilising this is sticking to the agreement. 

I had a read of it yesterday- lots of legal terminology obviously, but that's the effect of the article.

Ultimately, blame layers will continue to do just that. However the GFA has within it an agreement that all parties will be represented and respected, irrespective of size. Thus, if one or more groups have a grievance then the GFA isn't being properly fulfilled. 

Therefore get the necessary changes, which they all want to get costs down, and move on to getting stormont up and running.

Sadly parliament set us on this course by voting for not allowing us to leave the EU without a deal. 

Edited May 17, 20224 yr by Mounts Kipper

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Sadly parliament set us on this course by voting for not allowing us to leave the EU without a deal. 

That’s what we wanted though? Power back in our hands.

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Sadly parliament set us on this course by voting for not allowing us to leave the EU without a deal. 

In which case a hard border between NI and ROI would now be operating which completely undermines the GFA.