bristol_wanderer

Great news for BWFC. A successful Newcastle under BSA would have been disastrous for us as he could have taken pratically any member of staff from our club - although he had already taken half of them. No bitterness towards Sam - it saddens me that his ego overtook his ability to assess his own abilities. He was always an average tactician, but when his heart was truly in the job he was a great man manager and motivator. You always felt when you saw him writing in Zoo magazine, playing the big I am on celebrity darts programs, and striding out of a helicopter on arrival at Newcastle that he had taken his eye off the ball. In the end he looked absolutely clueless there - playing long balls up to Owen and playing Alan Smith as a holding midfielder, whilst trying to implement a complex backroom set up in weeks, something that took about 6 years here.

Something, don't ask me what, makes me beileive he doesn't really want to come here, and will end up somewhere else.

Well said. Why do people on here say things like "its the boards fault for showing no ambition" when: a.) There is no board as such that is relevant to football matters - ED is the owner who decides what money is to be spent, PG is the front man and holds the key manager/those who run the club relationship, and Alan Duckworth manages the club operation. b.) The club have bought the most expensive and highly rated players in our history under this regime. c.) We have been as successful in terms of consistent top flight finishes than at any other period. d.) The club were technically bankrupt when the current regime took over, lying on the pitch in the lower reaches of the Championship.

Yep, you are desperately wrong.

Crowd was 20309. Wigan brought 1800-1900 so 18400-18500 home fans which was 1500 or so up on the Villa and Boro games. So some positive signs. Also as stated above, the atmosphere was better today - well done to those in the area under the scoreboard and in the North lower. The chants of "We are the one and only Wanderers" came at a time when Wigan seemed to visibly tire, and may have contributed that extra few % to them doing so. There even seemed to be more passion in my area of the West Stand upper today - particularly when the ref booked Guthrie for blocking a pass - at which point a few of us almost ended up in the row in front! Once people stop going, it is hard to get back into the habit, so those of us that are still going and/or still care must lead the way and generate as much as possible a positive environment to go with that that seems to exist within the club. Might have to talk nicely to t'other half to get a pass for City now. C'mon you whites.

get in 1-0 McCann

Correct. 8 internationals at least will be on show tonight plus two under 21 internationals in Guthrie/Hunt and Samuel who has been close to the England team (hasn't he 1 cap?). We should be winning the game with this team. All these players should be pushing to be in the first team. Lancaster - you should have pride in your club for having 15-20 internationals on its books rather than going on about fcukin boycotts. FFS.

Utter disgrace - you are an embarrassment to BWFC.

These threads are all very monotonous. "The club are shit becasue they don't open a club bar, reduce admission prices to 50p, arrange for me to leave the pub in Bolton town centre 10 minutes before kick off, and have me at the bar under the stand one minute before kick off, with a perfectly brewed pint in my hand, avoid scoring until I get to my seat 13 minutes after kick off, allow me to stand, swear, take drugs, abuse anybody I like, play marvellous free flowing football, score a goal or two, have a celebrity of my choice to give me a bj at half time, whilst having a club employee to personally hand me two further prefectly brewed scoops (complimentary of course), allowing me to return to my seat after 51 minutes, where after a marvellous second half performance, I will leave 5 minutes before the end to get to Scotts bar for a another few scoops. The club are such tossers that they don't even lay on chauffeur driven transport to take me to a location of my choice around 7 - 8 pm. And to top it all it looks like there will be no bid for Ronaldinho nor Kaka in the next TW. You can stuff it if you think I am leaving the bar at my local for the next home game - sack the board". The club aren't perfect, and there are things they could perhaps do to improve the situation, but we are by no means the worst in terms of fans issues. The club HAVE: reduced ST prices reduced cup game prices reduced bus travel resolved to a degree the issue of getting a beer at half time come up with a number of one off offers for certain games offered free travel to Arsenal produced a team on the pitch that is more successful than any other in the last 47 years. The fundamental problem here is the fans, not the club. As a general group we just can't be arsed - and that is not aiming to disrepect anybody - it is just the only conclusion that can be drawn from the statistics. IMO support is important, it may not be the biggest factor on the clubs balance sheet, but it is the whole soul and identity of the club. Our soul and identity can currently be described as empty, moaning, disinterested and passionless. It saddens me to say it, but we as a group do not currently deserve premiership football - clubs such as Leeds, Forest, Sheff Wed, even Charlton and WBA have far better fans in terms of numbers attending games. I forecast that we will soon disappear back into oblivion, back to 5000 supporters attending , with everyone blaming everything else but themselves for the demise.

Agree. Our support appears pathetic, and the sentiment off here is that many of our 'fans' don't actually care at all about the club, but just what the club can do for them. Other clubs get true supporters who are actually interested on how their team performs on the pitch. Most BWFC fans started supporting Bolton when the football was poor (i.e. between 1960 and 2000. with a few isolated exceptions), and the day out became a crucial part of the experience. Some were no doubt attracted by the day out, some by the fact that due to their background being a Wanderer was in their blood. Now the day out is not as good as it used to be, we are seeing the results. Perhaps we have to go backwards to go forwards - i.e.crowds go down to 10000-15000 diehards (for league games, less for cup games) and we hope that more fans will come along that are influenced/attracted by the product on the pitch? Perhaps this split has been inevitable for some time, and may as well as happen now?

Their fans don't sing so much when they are not dominating/leading do they? I've always been impressed by their support in previous visits here, but very quiet yesterday.

That might be our best chance - Benitez (if he remains) not realising the potential of Guthrie, and seeing him as 5th or 6th choice behind "superstars" who he can't regularly leave out, and ?2-4m being worth selling him for.

I thought BSA had taken a number of staff with him from here? Perhaps the spat he had with PG regarding PG digging in and making them see out their contracts is causing him problems? One thing I have always thought is that he built up that backroom team here bit by bit over 7 years. He was always going to need a couple of years to repeat that somewhere else, but paradoxically, the time and energy it takes to set the backroom team up with all the assoicated activity, must detract from what he needs to get that couple of years i.e. achieving results and building a bond with the players.

Was discussing this subject over what was a great footballing weekend. Apologies if any of the below is very similar to any of the previous 70 or so posts, but couldn't be bothered to read them all! I am in the hope he gets sacked camp. But not sour grapes - I think an Allardyce inspired, buoyant, trophy/top 4/6 challenging Newcastle side would be very bad for us. He could potentially attract anyone from this club to Newcastle under those circumstances (i.e. Jussi, Davies, Anelka, Diouf), and thus his shadow remains hanging over us. Also, at the moment Newcastle are of a similar standard to us, so if he fails that is one more team we will hopefully be beating. I am very grateful for what he did here, and IMO until the last year or so he was an excellent manager. His ego just grew too much and now he is writing in Zoo magazine, his pictured arriving at the Newcastle job getting out of a helicopter (celeb style), and criticizes CL winning managers having won nothing himself as a player or manager. And all this whilst becoming a one dimensinal manager playing 70s tactics. When Djorkaeff and Okocha were here with Davies, we had a great combination of attractive but robust football. What I can't believe is that he has gone there and openly declared his intention to turn them into the new Bolton. Does he realise that this is so insulting to them? Still entertaining to see some of their fans responses. I always thought he was dying to play an expansive style but didn't have the money or the players to do so, but now with Owen, Martins, Viduka he plays long punts upfield. Crazy. He will live to regret leaving here IMO, but we have perhaps come out of this better off, with Megson appearing to be showing signs of being as capable if not more so than BSA.

So if BBC interview Tony and Dave from a northern mining town, who swear every other word, and talk about how they are going to single handedly take on 7000 croations, are shaven headed and five stone overweight modern day football feels nice and comfortable. If "Jemima and Wasim" talk about Lamps and Becks it is "dogshit". What difference does it make who BBC interview? Personally I go to games to watch and support my team, and as long as the people next to me support the same team I don't care which of the two groups they appear to belong to, or anywhere inbetween for that matter.

Quite right. These Oxbridge educated BBC types clearly haven't realised that only thick, fat, dribbling, pissed white males with tattoos know anything about football. Educational standards today eh. The problem with the England team is that the country believes we should be winning things and that teams like Croatia and Israel should be grateful to be on the same pitch as us. Yet we: Have many deluded fans. A press that works against the benefit of the team by sensationalising or even creating minor issues. Have very few palyers who are above average at this level. Gerrard and Rooney IMO. Have many players out of their depth or inexperienced at this level. Carson, Bridge, Wright-Phillips etc. Have an incompetent FA running the show. Have an uninspiring manager. Have over-paid players some of whom don't appear as motivated to play for their country as poorer opponents. Have a pathetic pitch in our shiny over-budget new stadium. We are just an average team between 10th and 20th in the world at the same level as the likes of Croatia, Russia, Czech Republic, Poland etc. And these countries sometimes don't qualify for major championships.

Do you really think so? It is pretty clear that our crowds don't respond to league position - and it is unlikely that with an investor we could get to the top 4. The best way to win back crowds appears to be to go down a couple of divisions - and then after a few decades when we finally make it back to where we are now - the Reebok would be full for a season or two

It was probably me who suggested PG is interested, and I am confident in saying he is. All you have to do is to think through your points, put them in an email and send it. He may not reply, because there are times when he gets a lot emails from fans, but I know of a number of fans who have met or communicated with him on the back of an initial email. You need to keep trying, IMO he appreciates the input even if he can't get round to replying. Obviousdy, any numpty, abusive emails will be counter productive. pgartside@bwfc.co.uk There are too many comments around suggesting the club, or senior figures within the club aren't interested. They are (IMO), as anyone responsible for a company would be if it was losing customers and therefore money. Put yourself in their shoes, it is not easy running any company, they have worked hard over the years to get BWFC into a respected Prem club, with top players, whilst managing a crippling debt. Crowds have been down over the last four years, and to them I am sure it is hard to understand why (it is hard for me to understand why). It is far easier to moan about it and blame those running the club than it is to do something, or help to do something, constructive about it. A number of these ideas are easy to talk about in a thread like this, but not so easy when you sit down round a table and think about the full implications of them. For example, my personal favourite is the opening up of the premier suite, and I believe it is achievable but the following needs thinking about: Is there enough time to clean up the Premier suite and prepare for evening functions (thinking 3pm kick offs)? What about varying kick off times (5.15 kick off times presumably a no no for the Premier suite)? Would you want have this function available some games but not others? Would it work - would enough fans use it? Controlling access - ST and membership only - but a number of fans who might use it aren't either of these? If not ST holders/members - stopping away fans? DJ required? Extra hardware - sound systems, video screens etc.? That is just the tip of the iceberg. But go for it. We need those us who are interested to start to make a difference, and if there are fundamental issues, to be tenatious with the club in trying to resolve them. But also, our club are no worse than most others, and have responded well to fans issues in recent times (ticket initiatives, reduced ST prices, free travel to Arsenal, beer systems for HT, better pies).

I was part of the WW delegation that had meetings with the club last year when most of these ideas were discussed. I have also had a one to one meeting with PG prior to these. My opinion is that the chap we met with - Mike Needham, Marketing Manager, a decent chap, but didn't have the clout to make anything really happen, and what really happened was him informing more senior people within the club of the results of our discussions, to little eventual effect. The only way to get anything to happen at BWFC IMO is to communicate direcly with PG. PG, whatever you may think of him, does care about all these issues, and wants to see fans filling the ground. We aren't going to move the ground to the centre of Bolton, and we aren't going to rip seats out for next season, and it will not be straight forward to achieve any of the other changes, but there is a chance if fans present well thought through ideas. The best of these are I have read (not just in this thread) are: Ticket office in Bolton More transport to and from Bolton at varying times. Opening up the premier suite to fans prior to games - i.e. a club bar for fans. But, a lot of the ideas around creating an atmosphere are down to the fans themselves. The club cannot create an atmosphere for us.

Ok Bolty, and George, and others who make the same point, I fully accept that the location of the Reebok is not ideal, and the location changes the feel of a game, and it would be far better to have the stadium in the centre of Bolton. But as you say we are stuck with it, so the fans have two choices: 1.) Fcuk the whole thing off, and watch games occasionally when there is nothing better to do, or 2.) Do all we can to turn the Reebok into a better place i.e. make it home, and make it a place that is enjoyable to be at. What I struggle to understand is that our crowds were very healthy in 2003/04, six years after the Reebok opened, with a regular 25000+ home attendance. Now, four years later, during which our team has improved considerably, we have lost a third of that support? Why is this? Does it take six years to realise that the Reebok is in the wrong location? Does the buzz go out of it when we are safe and in upper mid table? Is Football in general no longer enticing? All I would say is that if you care about the well being of BWFC then the club needs your support, and needs fans to be at games for a variety of reasons. We don't have the fanbase to cope with losing one third of it. But if fans have lost interest, then that is their business and not worthy of critiscm, it just doesn't do the club/team/town any good.

What would you say is wrong then? Too nice a stadium? No puddles of piss near the loos? I can see a lot of things right: Premiership team. Quality players. Reduced ST prices this season. Cheap match day prices if you are a member, and compared to many other clubs. Plenty of one off deals made by the club for specific games. Beer system for half time. Better pies. The main thing wrong is the quality of the support, so-callled fans moaning for the sake of it, moaning the board/chariman should be sacked without appearing to have any understanding of the way club is run etc. etc., whilst at the same time watching the game on TV or in their local pub. I think the definition of the word support needs to remembered. If we go down and we are on the verge of bankruptcy, then it will be the apathetic, moaning fans that will be the main cause. As things stand at the moment, we have to start with the 17000 that still have the enthusiasm to go, and build from there. Lets hope Megson can build a new era, and we re-capture some enthusiasm from somewhere.

Yep. I mean spending 2-3 years telling anyone who would listen that our most successful manager for 45 years should be sacked looks damn clever tonight doesn't it. Still what entertainment we have had over the last 3 months. Jeez.

PG has made his choice and we have to live with it. Disaster for me but neither you or I are paid to make these decisions - he is. If it does all turn out to be a disaster then he will deserve the 'Gartside out' comments. Until then lets get behind this regime.

He did well at Deportivo, but he spent fortunes in the transfer market during that period when he ws sucessful. Failed when other teams matched/overtook their spending power, and then at Betis. Too much of a gamble for us.

I agree the Carling cup fiasco was a monumental error and lost the club hundreds if not thousands of their most loyal fans. But whilst it is easy to say that the fans are no longer important of the club, what should the club do about it? They have reduced prices, put on a cheap good quality bus service, offered many discounted games, and things like free travel last year for the Arsenal game. PG (as I would in his position) would say "What more can we do"? Or, are you referring to the feeling you get from football in general?