Breaking this thread down and removing all other posters contributions and leaving it to Smiffs and Crawley; it could be offered to outsiders as a quick tutorial on British politics.

 

I am remaining completely neutral in this argument between Smiffs The Righteous and Crawley The Deluded Apologist Bedwetting Commie Pinko Freak

Local authorities do not operate in the real world - once you get a permanent job with one then it is very hard to lose it no matter how bad your performance is.

 

Like any other business you will find a few hard working and dedicated staff, the majority that just do enough to get by, and a small but significant number who basically get away with murder.

 

In the real world it is harder to consistently get away without doing any work.

 

One of the main problems with local authorities is that it is hard to manage 'bad' staff. Quite frankly it is easier to just ignore these people than have to go through the umpteen process in order to discipline them.

 

Even when you start such process you are often accused of being a racist, or a bully, or homophobic, or sexist, etc, etc, and be subject to unfounded 'grievance' procedures, disciplinary panels, appeal panels - the list is endless.

 

I worked in local government for 28 years. I've met some real good people. Unfortunately these days they are getting fewer and fewer and are being replaced by people who frankly could not care one way or the other (but lets be honest I'm sure you know such people in your company - you may even be one yourself! )

 

I left local government employment five years ago and set up my own business.

 

I work just as hard as hard as I did when I was at the council - but this time I am my own boss. I don't have to write countless reports seeking approval to do things from councillors who have political agendas. I don't have to put up with work shy lumps, with staff who threaten to use the 'race card' if you ask them to do the job that they are employed (and paid!) to do. I don't have to put up with disrespect and unwarranted abuse from the public etc, etc.

 

So to be fair - not all local authority employees are bad but there are certainly much fewer 'good' ones than there was when I became one in 1975.

Couldn't find their overpaid bottoms with both their gouty hands all of them.

 

Overpaid? i fookin wish!

 

but scarily enough for a leftie i agree with you to a certain degree, councils get ripped off and pay over the odds for stuff and no fucker up top seems to give a shite, as long as there's enough minorities working there and over paid consultants hired they seem to be happy enogh in their blissfull ignorance.

 

Perhaps if they paid those that do the actual work (rather than those that spend all week in meetings about meetings about targets) a decent wage they wouldn't get snapped up by the private companies leaving the place short staffed thus needing consultants.

Local authorities do not operate in the real world - once you get a permanent job with one then it is very hard to lose it no matter how bad your performance is.

 

Like any other business you will find a few hard working and dedicated staff, the majority that just do enough to get by, and a small but significant number who basically get away with murder.

 

In the real world it is harder to consistently get away without doing any work.

 

One of the main problems with local authorities is that it is hard to manage 'bad' staff. Quite frankly it is easier to just ignore these people than have to go through the umpteen process in order to discipline them.

 

Even when you start such process you are often accused of being a racist, or a bully, or homophobic, or sexist, etc, etc, and be subject to unfounded 'grievance' procedures, disciplinary panels, appeal panels - the list is endless.

 

I worked in local government for 28 years. I've met some real good people. Unfortunately these days they are getting fewer and fewer and are being replaced by people who frankly could not care one way or the other (but lets be honest I'm sure you know such people in your company - you may even be one yourself! )

 

I left local government employment five years ago and set up my own business.

 

I work just as hard as hard as I did when I was at the council - but this time I am my own boss. I don't have to write countless reports seeking approval to do things from councillors who have political agendas. I don't have to put up with work shy lumps, with staff who threaten to use the 'race card' if you ask them to do the job that they are employed (and paid!) to do. I don't have to put up with disrespect and unwarranted abuse from the public etc, etc.

 

So to be fair - not all local authority employees are bad but there are certainly much fewer 'good' ones than there was when I became one in 1975.

 

Spot on that sluffy, Unison have a fooking lot to answer for in regards to the state of local authorities nowadays!

Spot on that sluffy, Unison have a fooking lot to answer for in regards to the state of local authorities nowadays!

 

 

You get discounted holidays at the camp in Devon. What are you moaning about, pay your subs man.

 

Crawley Ex Unison Rep

Just to make all your arguments factually correct, council employee's are not Civil Servants they are Local Government staff the same as civilian police staff or teachers which is different than main stream Civil Servants.

 

However I accept the points being made but can assure you some of us work hard for your income tax, but not on Maundy Thursday when I get an extra half day of for Easter!!!

 

Go on then, explain to an idiot like me the difference between local government staff, working under the guidance of Whitehall et al and paid for by the taxpayer, and civil servants, working under the guidance of Whitehalls and, err, paid for the taxpayer.

 

Does one lot only get to retire at 50 or something?

Go on then, explain to an idiot like me the difference between local government staff, working under the guidance of Whitehall et al and paid for by the taxpayer, and civil servants, working under the guidance of Whitehalls and, err, paid for the taxpayer.

 

Does one lot only get to retire at 50 or something?

 

must be as if local government bods could retire at fifty there'd be hardly be any fooker left in our office

Go on then, explain to an idiot like me the difference between local government staff, working under the guidance of Whitehall et al and paid for by the taxpayer, and civil servants, working under the guidance of Whitehalls and, err, paid for the taxpayer.

 

Does one lot only get to retire at 50 or something?

 

 

 

 

Local Council workers are everyone from Head of Press to Binmen and work for the local community and not all the time work under the set guidelines from Whitehall, rather the Members (which is why you'll have difference policy on everything from refuge collection to school admissions etc). Civil Servants control all central governments depts and NDPBs and ensure the smooth running of the nation, regardless of who is in power but don't have a hand in making sure your road is free from pot holes.

 

All and paid for my me and thee, although none of my taxes will pay for your rubbish to be cleaned.

OK, a balanced view now! I'm self employd and my wife works for the local government.

I haven't had a day of sick in 9 years,

I have, on average, 30days off a year ( and that includes weekends!)

Paternity leave? I took a week off when my youngest was born and used five days of my holiday entitlement. (When I was employed by others)

I work through my lunch break and only occasionally take break to read and write this rubbish!

 

Now, local government.

Refer to the first post!

Go on then, explain to an idiot like me the difference between local government staff, working under the guidance of Whitehall et al and paid for by the taxpayer, and civil servants, working under the guidance of Whitehalls and, err, paid for the taxpayer.

 

Does one lot only get to retire at 50 or something?

 

Think of it a bit like the armed services.

 

The armed services are made up of the army, navy and air force. Each of them are responsible for a completely different role than the other, and each of them have their own ways of doing things - such as ranks and pay - but at the end of the day most of us see them as basically doing the same job - being there to protect us.

 

Similarly the public services (civil servants, local government employees, etc) have distinct differences in what they do, where they work, how much they get paid, etc - but at the end of the day most people just see them as beauracrats.

 

The simple explanation between the two is that civil servants work on things that are administered the same way right across the country - such as the tax office or the benefits office. It does not matter if you live in Bolton, London, or Birmingham - you will be taxed the same and receive the same entitlement to benefits. A civil servants employer is the government.

 

A local government officer is employed by the local council and administers things within the boundary of that council - such as education, social services, roads, planning, etc.

 

All authorities have to comply with the law - but how they do it can vary significantly from one area to another.

 

At the end of the day both civil servants and local government employees are only doing what your elected representatives - your MP's or your local councillor's - tell them to do. So if you don't like your local council's employee's - tell your local councillor that unless they get their finger out and get your matter sorted - that you won't be voting for them next time!

 

It might work!

ensure the smooth running of the nation

 

Fook me. Can't let that one go.

 

Think you forgot to add

Load of old bollocks.

 

Wrap it up in as many fancy dancy words as you want, anyone whos' wages are paid by the taxpayer are civil servants in my book.

I'll add my two penneth here!

 

My wife worked in the local council tax office from 1987 to 2006 until the collection and billing service was contracted out to Capita. She now works for them and has seen a huge change in how they are managed and it has been a big wake up call for her and her colleagues who moved over.

 

A couple of year ago whilst still under council control two of her bosses were caught red handed running a business from work selling stuff on ebay using the councils computers. Both where suspended from work on full pay for 4 month and thus enjoyed the best months of the summer, sitting in the beer garden of the pub opposite the the office, taking the piss. Then one was finally dismissed but the other allowed back with a reprimand and written warning. The one who was dismissed appealed and the council settled out of court for ?20k.

 

This particular incident is not untypical and demonstrates how lob sided the system is.

 

In the 19 years the wife worked for the council she moved offices 4 times (new furniture every time) and used 3 different computer systems all installed for ?millions. The galling thing is all these systems did not work as they should have, costing the local tax payer thousands extra to remedy. Do you realise that there is no one centrally negotiated supplier for these systems for each local authority, each authority goes out and sources and specs their own thus wasting millions, when essentially each is providing the same service. This also currently happening in the Health service as my best mate is he IT manager implementing the new system changes.

 

I could regale you with many more tales of councillor expenses, fact finding trips abroad, money wasted on twinning exercises etc but its too depressing and nothing will ever change.

Load of old bollocks.

 

Wrap it up in as many fancy dancy words as you want, anyone whos' wages are paid by the taxpayer are civil servants in my book.

 

 

Short read is it?

Very. ::::::::

I'll add my two penneth here!

 

My wife worked in the local council tax office from 1987 to 2006 until the collection and billing service was contracted out to Capita. She now works for them and has seen a huge change in how they are managed and it has been a big wake up call for her and her colleagues who moved over.

 

A couple of year ago whilst still under council control two of her bosses were caught red handed running a business from work selling stuff on ebay using the councils computers. Both where suspended from work on full pay for 4 month and thus enjoyed the best months of the summer, sitting in the beer garden of the pub opposite the the office, taking the piss. Then one was finally dismissed but the other allowed back with a reprimand and written warning. The one who was dismissed appealed and the council settled out of court for ?20k.

 

This particular incident is not untypical and demonstrates how lob sided the system is.

 

In the 19 years the wife worked for the council she moved offices 4 times (new furniture every time) and used 3 different computer systems all installed for ?millions. The galling thing is all these systems did not work as they should have, costing the local tax payer thousands extra to remedy. Do you realise that there is no one centrally negotiated supplier for these systems for each local authority, each authority goes out and sources and specs their own thus wasting millions, when essentially each is providing the same service. This also currently happening in the Health service as my best mate is he IT manager implementing the new system changes.

 

I could regale you with many more tales of councillor expenses, fact finding trips abroad, money wasted on twinning exercises etc but its too depressing and nothing will ever change.

 

thats pretty much the view from the inside too, too much outsourcing and recruiting of consultants costing a fortune and theres wasted money a go go in various bits of the council, it is getting better but the old guard are hard to change.

 

line managers recieve very little support from senoir management in chasing up sickness thus are at the mercy of union reps who abuse the system more than most and know what loopholes to use to avoid being caught out.

All unions, and union men, are c?nts.

Load of old bollocks.

 

Wrap it up in as many fancy dancy words as you want, anyone whos' wages are paid by the taxpayer are civil servants in my book.

 

You are correct that Civil Servants wages are funded from the Income Tax that you pay.

 

Local Government employees are however funded from the Council Tax that you pay.

 

(In fact it is not as simple as that - but that is the general principle of the difference between the two).

People who work for the council do so because they don't have the ability to work in the real world, they are only slightly above benefit scroungers on the scale. Why you'd admit to being one is beyond me.

People who work for the council do so because they don't have the ability to work in the real world, they are only slightly above benefit scroungers on the scale. Why you'd admit to being one is beyond me.

i have worked for the housing department for 24 years.believe me ,i have seen some sights.been on the tools for all of them.not having the ability to work in the real world./ ? eh ?some of us ,maybe.but is this not the same across the board ?????????

i have worked for the housing department for 24 years.believe me ,i have seen some sights.been on the tools for all of them.not having the ability to work in the real world./ ? eh ?some of us ,maybe.but is this not the same across the board ?????????

 

Your keyboard skills should end this debate here and now if you ask me. That post said in 3 lines what most of us have been trying to do across 2 pages.

 

Thank you sir!

i have worked for the housing department for 24 years.believe me ,i have seen some sights.been on the tools for all of them.not having the ability to work in the real world./ ? eh ?some of us ,maybe.but is this not the same across the board ?????????

E.ve.n i. cou.ld ge.t a j.ob worki.ng f.or the co.uncil/?

i have worked for the housing department for 24 years.believe me ,i have seen some sights.been on the tools for all of them.not having the ability to work in the real world./ ? eh ?some of us ,maybe.but is this not the same across the board ?????????

 

...........and people thought Morse Code had had its time.

You are correct that Civil Servants wages are funded from the Income Tax that you pay.

 

Local Government employees are however funded from the Council Tax that you pay.

 

(In fact it is not as simple as that - but that is the general principle of the difference between the two).

Common denominators? Our money and very little accountability.

 

By the way-what proportion of the money spent in Bolton by the council comes from Council Tax?

People who work for the council do so because they don't have the ability to work in the real world, they are only slightly above benefit scroungers on the scale. Why you'd admit to being one is beyond me.

 

MOD POWER EH CARL !

 

ANY REPLY TO YOU AND NO DOUBT WILL BE BANNED EH !