wonder if he'll get the same stick Meggers did for throwing away the EUFA cup

 

Stiff's and Kids go to moscow

Edited February 24, 200917 yr by frank_spencer

Wonder when Meggo is arranging our dinner?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7916585.stm

Wonder when Meggo is arranging our dinner?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7916585.stm

 

 

I'd heard about that.

 

Given a free dinner and another round in the UEFA cup which would everyone choose?

 

No brainer

He's goin 2 be in for a lot of stick now, serves him right. I asked an ex pro the other day if they he ever felt tired from playing more than once a week, he said 'yeah, when we played fri, sat and mon over easter, other than that no'.

He's goin 2 be in for a lot of stick now, serves him right. I asked an ex pro the other day if they he ever felt tired from playing more than once a week, he said 'yeah, when we played fri, sat and mon over easter, other than that no'.

 

He probably went to the game on a tram and smoked Woodbines. Are you comparing that to the modern game?

 

PS If you could stick to plain English, things will be all the better.

He probably did! The modern game is different but so is the pay! for 20k+ a week I dont think 180 mins is too much to ask, is it?

Edited March 1, 200917 yr by ph31

given our result after lisbon, villa dropping points today and spurs losing, you have to say resting players is not such a good idea.

given our result after lisbon, villa dropping points today and spurs losing, you have to say resting players is not such a good idea.

 

Last season we played six UEFA matches - and thus had six Premiership games following them three days later.

 

We rested key players in all of the UEFA games.

 

Out of the six Premiership games we won one, drew two, and lost three.

 

If we had progressed in the competition we clearly would have played more games - with Premiership games having to be played three days later (UEFA games Thursdays - following Premiership games Sundays).

 

Last season we avoided relegation by ONE point.

 

If we had gone on to win the UEFA Cup (and there was no guarantee we would) we would have expected to have earned something like ?2 million or so from the competition.

 

If we had been relegated we would have lost at least ?20 million.

 

Bolton Wanderers is a business - they simply did the maths.

 

Fans may not like it but from a business point of view Premiership survival is very much more important than a good UEFA run.

Last season we played six UEFA matches - and thus had six Premiership games following them three days later.

 

Rabotnicki away and home

Braga home

Bayern Munich away

Aris Thessoloniki home

Red Star Belgrade away

Atletico Madrid home and away

Sporting home and away

 

I make that 10 games. And without checking my fixtures, the thus is invalid as you aren't guaranteed to be playing every weekend.

Last season we played six UEFA matches - and thus had six Premiership games following them three days later.

 

We rested key players in all of the UEFA games.

 

Out of the six Premiership games we won one, drew two, and lost three.

 

If we had progressed in the competition we clearly would have played more games - with Premiership games having to be played three days later (UEFA games Thursdays - following Premiership games Sundays).

 

Last season we avoided relegation by ONE point.

 

If we had gone on to win the UEFA Cup (and there was no guarantee we would) we would have expected to have earned something like ?2 million or so from the competition.

 

If we had been relegated we would have lost at least ?20 million.

 

Bolton Wanderers is a business - they simply did the maths.

 

Fans may not like it but from a business point of view Premiership survival is very much more important than a good UEFA run.

 

so from your post...we rested players 6 times, from those games we got 5 points, which would nt be enough to stay up.

 

my point is that resting players does nt bring results in the next games, so why do it ?

 

i undertsand why they did it, but i am questioning if this tactic actually works, you have said nothing that shows it does.

Rabotnicki away and home

Braga home

Bayern Munich away

Aris Thessoloniki home

Red Star Belgrade away

Atletico Madrid home and away

Sporting home and away

 

I make that 10 games. And without checking my fixtures, the thus is invalid as you aren't guaranteed to be playing every weekend.

 

I'm sorry you are right - I only noted the games in the first half of the season for some reason!

 

We played Madrid home and away in consecutive games - so to Sporting.

 

So we actually played eight Premiership games after a midweek UEFA game and our record from these games were one win, two draws, and five defeats - or 5 points from a possible 24 (or 0.625 points a game).

 

We got 32 points from our other 30 Premiership games (or 1.067)

 

Like it or not the results show that we simply did not play well after UEFA games.

 

We only avoided relegation by one point.

 

As a fan I would have wanted Bolton to win the UEFA Cup - as a businessman I would have wanted to secure the future of my business and that meant sacrificing the UEFA to concentrate on staying up.

 

I believe the club made the right decision - but I accept that there are many fans that don't.

 

However any Premiership club would do exactly the same thing in similar circumstances - as clubs are run by businessmen and not fans.

so from your post...we rested players 6 times, from those games we got 5 points, which would nt be enough to stay up.

 

my point is that resting players does nt bring results in the next games, so why do it ?

 

i undertsand why they did it, but i am questioning if this tactic actually works, you have said nothing that shows it does.

 

Well resting key players in UEFA games will obviously mean that they avoid possible injures to themselves. There is also an argument that the fewer games players play, the fresher and less fatigued their bodies will be for games at the end of the season.

 

Another view is that although we only managed a measly five points from games following UEFA games where we rested our key players - we might not have even managed that if those players who missed the games had not been rested.

 

I'm sure the Prozone stats that clubs have will confirm how fit players actually are after playing two games in under four days.

 

There is also the number of games that would have to be played at the end of the season if we had progressed in the competition.

 

Rangers ended up in the final - and had a chance of the treble - by winning the Scottish League and FA Cup as well - but ended up by running out of steam and winning nothing!

 

Basically businesses minimise risk - and it would appear that many clubs perceive extended cup runs as not always being compatible to their objective of Premiership survival - and thus are prepared to rest their key players and accept being knocked out, rather than going for it and risking ultimate failure in the Premier League.

the uefa cup is a piss up

 

the more games we play, the more piss ups we have

 

how players perform after uefa cup games is irrelevant

i'm still confused as to the logic taht suggests we would have

 

1 beaten lisbon witha full strength team

 

2 gone on to win it

 

there is nowt, and i mean nowt, to suggest we'd have gone any further

I'd heard about that.

 

Given a free dinner and another round in the UEFA cup which would everyone choose?

 

No brainer

 

here here. free dinner all the way.......

the uefa cup is a piss up

 

the more games we play, the more piss ups we have

 

how players perform after uefa cup games is irrelevant

 

I'd have thought that it would be in your own self interest for the players to do well - It's hard to go on further European tours if we got relegated to the second division!

Well resting key players in UEFA games will obviously mean that they avoid possible injures to themselves. There is also an argument that the fewer games players play, the fresher and less fatigued their bodies will be for games at the end of the season.

 

Another view is that although we only managed a measly five points from games following UEFA games where we rested our key players - we might not have even managed that if those players who missed the games had not been rested.

 

I'm sure the Prozone stats that clubs have will confirm how fit players actually are after playing two games in under four days.

 

There is also the number of games that would have to be played at the end of the season if we had progressed in the competition.

 

Rangers ended up in the final - and had a chance of the treble - by winning the Scottish League and FA Cup as well - but ended up by running out of steam and winning nothing!

 

Basically businesses minimise risk - and it would appear that many clubs perceive extended cup runs as not always being compatible to their objective of Premiership survival - and thus are prepared to rest their key players and accept being knocked out, rather than going for it and risking ultimate failure in the Premier League.

 

nothing you have posted proves any of your arguements.

 

the only fact so far is that teams who rest players do not do that well in their next game.

 

another theory is that players want to play in big games and being left out of the lisbon game led to some players sulking and this was reflected in subsequent performances. only a theory but backed up the same number of facts as your theory.

I'd have thought that it would be in your own self interest for the players to do well - It's hard to go on further European tours if we got relegated to the second division!

 

i see nothing to suggest it's nothing more than a big p?ss up

 

facts, logic etc are not welcome here

Well, I'm with Zico on this one.

 

My experience was that I got very very pissed on every Euro away jolly. Therefore, he's right.

nothing you have posted proves any of your arguements.

 

the only fact so far is that teams who rest players do not do that well in their next game.

 

another theory is that players want to play in big games and being left out of the lisbon game led to some players sulking and this was reflected in subsequent performances. only a theory but backed up the same number of facts as your theory.

 

Well the fact is that teams DO rest their key players in UEFA matches to play them in Premiership matches three days later.

 

It's not only Bolton that does this either.

 

If you don't like my explanation then fine - this is what Megson says about it -

 

?We had qualified for the UEFA Cup the year before but then found ourselves rank bottom of the table,? he explained. ?The priority was that we stayed up ? and I think, ultimately, that?s where everyone?s priorities lie.

 

?Nobody wants to go out of the competition, but the priority has to be the Premier League. Portsmouth got into it last year and have now found themselves in a relegation battle. It can cause huge problems.

 

?I don?t know exactly but I know you don?t make a lot of money from the UEFA Cup,? Megson reasoned. ?The glamour and prestige of being in Europe is terrific but financially, if you finish one place higher in the Premier League than you may have done, you?d probably earn more money than you would getting to the final of the UEFA Cup.

 

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/wanderers/4...Euro_sacrafice/

At the end of the day I think we were in a valid position to 'focus on the league' as 1. We wouldnt have gone on to win and 2. We were in a dire position in the league. I dont think the same can be said for Villa (6 points clear of Arsenal who cant score) or Spurs (14th with remaining home games against wba, boro, newcastle & city).

At the end of the day I think we were in a valid position to 'focus on the league' as 1. We wouldnt have gone on to win and 2. We were in a dire position in the league. I dont think the same can be said for Villa (6 points clear of Arsenal who cant score) or Spurs (14th with remaining home games against wba, boro, newcastle & city).

Spurs?

 

What a shit club

Wot Zico and Traf sed!

Fact is that, as many have said before, financially, the UEFA cup just cannot compare with the Premiership so in that respect the decision to concentrate on the Premiership is financially correct. However, the fact is that teams often end up losing in Europe by resting players. The psychological effect of that can be very damaging - no matter what we think of some of these overpaid primadonnas, they probably like losing and being knocked out of competitions as much as we do. Hence, the performances in the Premiership immediately after getting knocked out of Europe are not wonderful. I'm 100% sure that the performance against Wigan was largely down to the fact that everyone was so down after going out of Europe. Its a bit of a catch 22 situation, but it appears that its certainly not just a Bolton problem. Also, its unfair just to have a go at Megson - I seem to remember Allardyce saying something along the lines of being really worried in the away leg against Plovdiv when he went for a walk and saw so many Bolton fans had turned up that he hadn't put out a strong enough side because it wasn't a priority for him, so it had started even then.

 

Think also, for example, about Anelka - I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons for coming to us was because we could offer him European football, but unless I'm very much mistaken he didn't get to play too often for us in Europe did he?? Yet he had plenty of opportunity and was rested for the "more important" Premiership games. As a player that thrived on confidence etc, surely that can't have been good for his game??

Fact is that, as many have said before, financially, the UEFA cup just cannot compare with the Premiership so in that respect the decision to concentrate on the Premiership is financially correct. However, the fact is that teams often end up losing in Europe by resting players. The psychological effect of that can be very damaging - no matter what we think of some of these overpaid primadonnas, they probably like losing and being knocked out of competitions as much as we do. Hence, the performances in the Premiership immediately after getting knocked out of Europe are not wonderful. I'm 100% sure that the performance against Wigan was largely down to the fact that everyone was so down after going out of Europe. Its a bit of a catch 22 situation, but it appears that its certainly not just a Bolton problem. Also, its unfair just to have a go at Megson - I seem to remember Allardyce saying something along the lines of being really worried in the away leg against Plovdiv when he went for a walk and saw so many Bolton fans had turned up that he hadn't put out a strong enough side because it wasn't a priority for him, so it had started even then.

 

Think also, for example, about Anelka - I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons for coming to us was because we could offer him European football, but unless I'm very much mistaken he didn't get to play too often for us in Europe did he?? Yet he had plenty of opportunity and was rested for the "more important" Premiership games. As a player that thrived on confidence etc, surely that can't have been good for his game??

Unlikely, IMO

 

More that it was his route back onto the gravytrain that is The Prem. His strategy worked.

Nobody can prove whether resting players made a difference in us staying up or not but the club just played it safety first like we have done ever since we have been in the premiership. If we hadnt of been in such deep shit in the league we would of gone for it a bit like City are doing this season, the key is to get a good start and get comfortable in the league then you can afford to take that chance.