Anfield's doors are open today for the ceremony that should by rights only be for the families and friends of the victims. How many of the self-pitying fcukers will turn up? They should have made it all ticket, although the irony is that that wouldn't stop them.

Reading accounts of people who were there (my dad was btw), almost every single one chucks in "I've not been able to work since".

 

like it

 

a lot

It took thousands of scousers to cause the crush at Hillsborough. Thousands of fucking idiots who thought it was their god given right to watch a football match. Thousands of fucking idiots who carried on pushing their way forward into an already over-crowded stand. Thousands of fucking idiots who didn't give a shit about the people at the front, and piled in anyway because of their overwhelmingly selfish desire to watch a football match. Nobody is to blame but those people. Nothing the police, the FA, or anybody else, could have done would have stopped those thousands of fucking idiots from barging their way into the ground. They're the real culprits in this, and I hope they still have nightmares, the fucking scouse idiots.

I'd like to hear Sluffy's views on this.

Carl, Spider, ive just shown your posts to my scouse housemate.

 

He's really not happy, as you can imagine

It took thousands of scousers to cause the crush at Hillsborough. Thousands of fucking idiots who thought it was their god given right to watch a football match. Thousands of fucking idiots who carried on pushing their way forward into an already over-crowded stand. Thousands of fucking idiots who didn't give a shit about the people at the front, and piled in anyway because of their overwhelmingly selfish desire to watch a football match. Nobody is to blame but those people. Nothing the police, the FA, or anybody else, could have done would have stopped those thousands of fucking idiots from barging their way into the ground. They're the real culprits in this, and I hope they still have nightmares, the fucking scouse idiots.

 

And here lies the rub; they've had 20 years to convince themselves, the club and the media that it was everybody's fault but their own. They've said it for so long and they say it so often that they now believe it themselves.

i'll happily post up the details from 'the beautiful game' by david conn which shows why the fa and swfc are both culpable

 

and pablo, get off your fcuking high horse, cos your shower would behave no differently - ffs you're always telling us when youve got your lot in our parts of the reebok (thats isn't allowed either or are we getting into 'degrees' of lawlessness)

 

liverpool, everton

 

all from the same limited gene pool

 

youi've just been lucky....imo

 

 

We are different because we dont have the blood of 135 people on our hands.

 

We played just as many big games as them in the 80's and still didnt kill fans.

 

That day in 89 we played at Villa park in the other semi.....did we kill anyone ???

 

In 85 the same year they had multiple incidents, we we commended and with the behavior of our fans...by the same Guverning body that then banned us for 5 years for what they did.

 

You said it yourself, we get everywere, in other people's ends.....AND STILL DIDONT KILL PEOPLE!

It took thousands of scousers to cause the crush at Hillsborough. Thousands of fucking idiots who thought it was their god given right to watch a football match. Thousands of fucking idiots who carried on pushing their way forward into an already over-crowded stand. Thousands of fucking idiots who didn't give a shit about the people at the front, and piled in anyway because of their overwhelmingly selfish desire to watch a football match. Nobody is to blame but those people. Nothing the police, the FA, or anybody else, could have done would have stopped those thousands of fucking idiots from barging their way into the ground. They're the real culprits in this, and I hope they still have nightmares, the fucking scouse idiots.

 

They may be partly to blame & I hate the media circus on one side

 

BUT

 

Are you seriously telling me that Bolton supporters wouldn't do the same in those circumstances if we'd had that level of support - come off it...I know they're Scouse but they were just pissed up lads

Just watching the memorial service on sky sport

 

big crowd there

 

big crush trying to get in apparently

 

people smashed outside

We are different because we dont have the blood of 135 people on our hands.

 

We played just as many big games as them in the 80's and still didnt kill fans.

 

That day in 89 we played at Villa park in the other semi.....did we kill anyone ???

 

In 85 the same year they had multiple incidents, we we commended and with the behavior of our fans...by the same Guverning body that then banned us for 5 years for what they did.

 

You said it yourself, we get everywere, in other people's ends.....AND STILL DIDONT KILL PEOPLE!

 

seems to me you're saying they meant to kill people?

 

or it's ok to do it, till you kill someone, then it's out of order?

They may be partly to blame & I hate the media circus on one side

 

BUT

 

Are you seriously telling me that Bolton supporters wouldn't do the same in those circumstances if we'd had that level of support - come off it...I know they're Scouse but they were just pissed up lads

 

Are you saying Liverpool were the only club to have that level of support in the 80's?

Did anyone just hear the bishop of Liverpool?

 

"i'm going to start on time even though i can see people are still coming in at the back"

seems to me you're saying they meant to kill people?

 

or it's ok to do it, till you kill someone, then it's out of order?

 

 

Having a drink, getting in the other teams end, to watch the match, that is what it is, its not Murder, or crushing people to death.

 

Weather they did mean to kill them or not, i dont know, BUT they died.....AND ITS NOT A SINGLE INCIDENT now is it ??

 

If you kill someone driving once, its an accident....but then twice ???

If you kill someone driving once, its an accident....but then twice ???

 

so you saying they did it on purpose?

 

because from this statement:

 

"At Cup Finals and Semi's even big League games, Everton / United / City even Newcastle have taken as many fans as Liverpool, they are no different....I dont see multiple incidents from these Clubs."

 

I just got the impression you were going along the lines, to keep with this driving analogy, of "I've drunk driven loads of times, but never been caught, whereas Liverpool have been caught twice after killing someone, so they're murdering bastuds, but everyone does it, and not everyone gets caught, those that get caught, they're the bad uns"

 

seems to me like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other

 

and let's face it

 

no one is going to take responsilbilty for it

 

and you can bet everton, utd, city and newcastle wouldn't either

Are you saying Liverpool were the only club to have that level of support in the 80's?

 

They were clearly the most successful English club in England in the 80's so probably, but I don't know is the truth and it's pretty irrelevant - what is relevant is that demand was higher than supply and those without tickets tried to blag their way in...

 

What is certain is that what happened isn't because they're "scouse"...I know circumstances were different, but don't forget the Burnden Park disaster

They were clearly the most successful English club in England in the 80's so probably, but I don't know is the truth and it's pretty irrelevant - what is relevant is that demand was higher than supply and those without tickets tried to blag their way in...

 

What is certain is that what happened isn't because they're "scouse"...I know circumstances were different, but don't forget the Burnden Park disaster

 

I didn't say it was because they were scouse. I said it was because they were "fucking idiots".

so you saying they did it on purpose?

 

because from this statement:

 

"At Cup Finals and Semi's even big League games, Everton / United / City even Newcastle have taken as many fans as Liverpool, they are no different....I dont see multiple incidents from these Clubs."

 

I just got the impression you were going along the lines, to keep with this driving analogy, of "I've drunk driven loads of times, but never been caught, whereas Liverpool have been caught twice after killing someone, so they're murdering bastuds, but everyone does it, and not everyone gets caught, those that get caught, they're the bad uns"

 

seems to me like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other

 

and let's face it

 

no one is going to take responsilbilty for it

 

and you can bet everton, utd, city and newcastle wouldn't either

 

 

I can say this completely 100% honestly, if this was Everton that this happened to, I would not be a proud blue, and possibly wouldn't have followed the team as much as I did.

 

I like to think we are different that that horrible bunch from the other side.

 

Im disgusted with some of our fans now, with stupid little things.

 

 

We may never have their success, but we definitely dont have their shame!

We may never have their success, but we definitely dont have their shame!

 

?

 

I can say this completely 100% honestly, if this was Everton that this happened to, I would not be a proud blue, and possibly wouldn't have followed the team as much as I did.

 

I like to think we are different that that horrible bunch from the other side.

 

Im disgusted with some of our fans now, with stupid little things.

 

 

We may never have their success, but we definitely dont have their shame!

 

You would be on here blaming everyone else but Everton fans.

?

 

 

That a picture of Pablo's Grandad?

My point would not be to apportion blame for blame's sake 20 years on - after all, it was clearly the sum of loads of parts. The inefficient police have to bear responsibility as do those who thought having fences at grounds was a good idea etc etc. But the problem is that neither that club nor its fans nor the fawning media seem to take on board the lesson of the fans actions. Noone would sensibly suggest that they set out to generate consequences like that; but fućkin hell, you have to learn lessons in life. And when you look at incidents such as Athens its clear that neither the club, their fans or the media want to address those lessons. It's far to convenient to go down the "noone stops a determined scouser getting to see a game" type myth (which - and I paraphrase obviously - was stated in jocular fashion by, I'm pretty sure, Alan Green, on R5 in a programme looking forward to that Athens game) than to address the real problems.

Might Bolton have found themselves in a similar situation? Maybe; after all, as pointed out, we've had our own tragedy.

But I'm pretty confident that had we got to a major Euro final we wouldn't have robbed our own (as they did in Athens) or printed leaflets encouraging other fans to come over and help in the mayhem (as they did in Heysel).

And if we HAD done any of those things we can be absolutely certain that the media would not talk about "loveable cheeky Bolton fans who'll always find a way into the game" - they'd have feckin crucified us.

Barack Obama has got a new dog.

I often wonder whether it was either karma they created for themselves (Heysel)

 

or God's revenge (Heysel)

 

 

 

As someone once said; "noone is innocent"

 

 

That said; RIP

Although I feel for the families of the victims, I can't help wondering about what "justice for the 96" they are fighting for. As so many people on this thread have said, there were a number of 'issues' that day that lead to the tragedy. If one of those reasons were drunken Liverpool fans trying to gate crash, are they seeking justice from individuals?

 

Or are they just trying to clear the ticketless fans of any blame by getting an authority (Police, FA, SWFC) to admit it was their fault?

 

Surely even they know that 'their own' were partly to blame.

Although I feel for the families of the victims, I can't help wondering about what "justice for the 96" they are fighting for. As so many people on this thread have said, there were a number of 'issues' that day that lead to the tragedy. If one of those reasons were drunken Liverpool fans trying to gate crash, are they seeking justice from individuals?

 

Or are they just trying to clear the ticketless fans of any blame by getting an authority (Police, FA, SWFC) to admit it was their fault?

 

Surely even they know that 'their own' were partly to blame.

I'm told that they want someone to say "sorry"

 

However, I'm sure an apology would lead to other things.

Although I feel for the families of the victims, I can't help wondering about what "justice for the 96" they are fighting for. As so many people on this thread have said, there were a number of 'issues' that day that lead to the tragedy. If one of those reasons were drunken Liverpool fans trying to gate crash, are they seeking justice from individuals?

 

Or are they just trying to clear the ticketless fans of any blame by getting an authority (Police, FA, SWFC) to admit it was their fault?

 

Surely even they know that 'their own' were partly to blame.

 

 

But 'their own own' are the salt off the earth