Just turned over and its the Munich drama, its cup final 1958. What a great 5 minutes this is going to be.

Edited April 24, 201115 yr by Mounts Kipper

The build up to the 1958 F.A. Cup Final was reported to have been fairly acrimonious with some Utd supporters recalling the lack of sympathy being shown to them by Bolton supporters and some Bolton supporters complaining about the disproportionate amount of sympathy being shown towards Utd. The general feeling seemed to be that the final was in danger of becoming a farce. One United supporter wrote that 'Bolton Wanderers, and not Manchester City, should be considered the natural enemies of Manchester United'.

 

Pages 36 & 37 explain in more detail: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K4UUpTP1xTsC&lpg=PA36&ots=nrt8Ynfk86&dq=In%20the%20days%20immediately%20preceding%20the%20final%2C%20sentiments%20of%20this%20kind%20took%20on%20a%20political%20dimension&pg=PA36&output=embed

Edited April 25, 201115 yr by SpiritofBurnden

whatever any some of our moronic band of supporters might think, that side so tragically wiped out on Munich airfield in 1958, was arguably one of the best club sides this country has ever known. Quite how people still get off in glorifying it still horrifies me. RIP the babes

 

 

Now i dont wish death or bad on anyfcuker but fcuk them wankers

Pages 36 & 37 explain in more detail: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K4UUpTP1xTsC&lpg=PA36&ots=nrt8Ynfk86&dq=In%20the%20days%20immediately%20preceding%20the%20final%2C%20sentiments%20of%20this%20kind%20took%20on%20a%20political%20dimension&pg=PA36&output=embed

I don't like the Munich chants, but reading that load of self pitying shite, I might change my mind.

 

But we didn't win it, not because we weren't good enough, but because Nat Lofthouse of Bolton Wanderers cheated. From that day to this I have hated Bolton (and Nat Lofthouse in particular) with a passion unreserved for any other team to the point where, when Lofthouse walked out on the pitch on Feb 6th [the anniversary of the Munich disaster] a couple of seasons ago, I was almost physically sick.

 

I'm pretty sure we won 2-0. Owt wrong with the first goal?

The build up to the 1958 F.A. Cup Final was reported to have been fairly acrimonious with some Utd supporters recalling the lack of sympathy being shown to them by Bolton supporters and some Bolton supporters complaining about the disproportionate amount of sympathy being shown towards Utd. The general feeling seemed to be that the final was in danger of becoming a farce. One United supporter wrote that 'Bolton Wanderers, and not Manchester City, should be considered the natural enemies of Manchester United'.

 

Pages 36 & 37 explain in more detail: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K4UUpTP1xTsC&lpg=PA36&ots=nrt8Ynfk86&dq=In%20the%20days%20immediately%20preceding%20the%20final%2C%20sentiments%20of%20this%20kind%20took%20on%20a%20political%20dimension&pg=PA36&output=embed

 

Great find is that, and just about sums it up, my dad is a blue and always tells me that after Munich Utd thought it was there right to poach the best players form other clubs to make up for the loss of there finest players, also interesting to read that letter from a Bolton fan saying that Boltons achievemnt in reaching the final was incredible considering the difference in resources and the fact that Bolton had lost 15,000 fans, can anyone shed light on his comments, maybe Biff or one of the older lads might know.

Edited April 25, 201115 yr by Mounts Kipper

There was a lot of poetic licence in that film about United. Shots of the streets round the OT having tram lines. They had long gone by the period the film was set. Jimmy Murphy was a 5'7" Welshman, not a 6'2" Scot. I'm fairly certain that no United player ever walked on to the pitch smoking a pipe. Who was he supposed to be by the way. The teams going out for the cup final. United were captained by Bill Foulkes not Harry Gregg and Nat was captain of Bolton and wore number 9, yet the Bolton number 9 was near the back of the line. You would have thought that the director of the film would have made sure that little things like these were correct. I'm sure the United badge was wrong too. I'll have to check that out.

 

Look out for more re writing of history on Thursday in a programme about Bobby Charlton. I bet it doesn't show him cheating on "Double Your Money"

 

For the benefit of those who say we shouldn't call them munichs. It was the United fans who called them that first. At the games following the crash they were there chanting Munich trying to get sympathy.

I didn't watch the drama; did it show Busby buying off the parents?

"What was the homecoming like?"

 

"Wonderful. It wasn't very good through Salford though. They pelted us with tomatoes. We didn't feel a thing. We'd won. Talk about happy lads. We got a big bonus for winning. About ten grand apiece. (Laughter). ?25 was all we got."

 

http://www.boltonrevisited.org.uk/s-bwfc-1958.html

 

Edited April 25, 201115 yr by SpiritofBurnden

I suppose we can take from that caption that bad parenting isn't a new thing then.

interesting to read that letter from a Bolton fan saying that Boltons achievemnt in reaching the final was incredible considering the difference in resources and the fact that Bolton had lost 15,000 fans, can anyone shed light on his comments

 

I think he might have been referring to the fact that around the last time that Bolton had reached the F.A. Cup Final, the average attendance was about 15,000 more than it was in 1958 when we were averaging around 22,000.

The relationship between Israel and the Arab countries played a significant part....

 

None of the Arabian countries would play World Cup qualifiers against Israel, effectively giving them a 'walkover' into the World Cup Finals. FIFA decided that this was not to be allowed, and decreed that Israel should play off against the best European group runners-up, which, somewhat surprisingly was Wales (though they did have John Charles). Wales were managed by MU's assistant manager, Jimmy Murphy. The match in Tel Aviv coincided with the MU quarter final leg in Belgrade, hence Murphy absence from the trip.

 

If he had been there he would not have been fit and well and able to immediately begin the short-term rebuilding exercise. They would probably not have got the FA to bend the cup rules, by allowing MU to play those normally cup-tied (after all they had a nationwide youth squad of former schoolboy internationals). And this wasn't just for the delayed fifth round, but all the way, including the final. And as has been said above, Bolton were 1-0 ahead before the 'controversial' goal and kept a clean sheet, hence they won deservedly.

So its Jesus' fault that they're the biggest shower of shit on the planet.

I didn't watch the drama; did it show Busby buying off the parents?

 

him and louis edwards

 

i remember that world in action expos? which outed them as cheats

whatever any some of our moronic band of supporters might think, that side so tragically wiped out on Munich airfield in 1958, was arguably one of the best club sides this country has ever known. Quite how people still get off in glorifying it still horrifies me. RIP the babes

 

Munich

"What was the homecoming like?"

 

"Wonderful. It wasn't very good through Salford though. They pelted us with tomatoes. We didn't feel a thing. We'd won. Talk about happy lads. We got a big bonus for winning. About ten grand apiece. (Laughter). ?25 was all we got."

 

http://www.boltonrevisited.org.uk/s-bwfc-1958.html

 

The events of 1958 are often put forward as the reason for the depth of hatred in Bolton towards United. I'm sure they are partially responsible. However, those Wanderers supporting members of my family who can remember pre-58 say there had been a pretty nasty rivalry building up for some years. These were long before the days of segregation - home and away fans mixed on the terraces. United fans were apparently noted for being the only ones who refused to get involved in good-hearted banter and talked across fans of other teams as if somehow they were inferior. Even then United's 'supporters' were full of their own conceit and watched only one team.

One other obvious historic reason for Bolton fans to have a particular dislike of United is simple geography. United's locally based support has always had its heartland around Salford. There was a survey recently that found the greatest concentration of North West based United support in the Worsley area (places like Eccles and Irlam also have particularly strong infestations). Our catchment area and these areas cross .... the City strongholds don't really. Its not just City fans who have to live close-up to the the most arrogant football fans in the world - we have to put up with them as well. Hardly a surprise therefore that they are our main rivals.

 

I'd never realised that the bus incident happened in Walkden - always thought Wogdin was the epicentre of Bolton/United rivalry!

I'd never realised that the bus incident happened in Walkden - always thought Wogdin was the epicentre of Bolton/United rivalry!

 

And if anyone knows the Walkden area on here, they will know that these days you learn to chuck stuff at moving vehicles from an early age now.

The events of 1958 are often put forward as the reason for the depth of hatred in Bolton towards United. I'm sure they are partially responsible. However, those Wanderers supporting members of my family who can remember pre-58 say there had been a pretty nasty rivalry building up for some years. These were long before the days of segregation - home and away fans mixed on the terraces. United fans were apparently noted for being the only ones who refused to get involved in good-hearted banter and talked across fans of other teams as if somehow they were inferior. Even then United's 'supporters' were full of their own conceit and watched only one team.

One other obvious historic reason for Bolton fans to have a particular dislike of United is simple geography. United's locally based support has always had its heartland around Salford. There was a survey recently that found the greatest concentration of North West based United support in the Worsley area (places like Eccles and Irlam also have particularly strong infestations). Our catchment area and these areas cross .... the City strongholds don't really. Its not just City fans who have to live close-up to the the most arrogant football fans in the world - we have to put up with them as well. Hardly a surprise therefore that they are our main rivals.

 

I'd never realised that the bus incident happened in Walkden - always thought Wogdin was the epicentre of Bolton/United rivalry!

 

It was not walkden it was somewhere between salford and clifton from my understanding.

WTF is it on here with the great Man U love in, football fans from every club sing/chant about anything they can to wind up opposing fans, Man U fans do 'the aeroplane' more than anybody, why don't we have pink couches to sit on and nothing stronger than hot chocolate at the game, its sanitised enough without moaning about what we sing/chant to the biggest tossers in football history, fcuk the red tw@ts and everybody else.

WTF is it on here with the great Man U love in, football fans from every club sing/chant about anything they can to wind up opposing fans, Man U fans do 'the aeroplane' more than anybody, why don't we have pink couches to sit on and nothing stronger than hot chocolate at the game, its sanitised enough without moaning about what we sing/chant to the biggest tossers in football history, fcuk the red tw@ts and everybody else.

Wolves in particular

WTF is it on here with the great Man U love in, football fans from every club sing/chant about anything they can to wind up opposing fans, Man U fans do 'the aeroplane' more than anybody, why don't we have pink couches to sit on and nothing stronger than hot chocolate at the game, its sanitised enough without moaning about what we sing/chant to the biggest tossers in football history, fcuk the red tw@ts and everybody else.

fcuk im,

fcuk im in the hearts,

fcuk im in the hearts till they are dead

Being one of the owder ones who post on this site I have to say that I am not in favour of the Munich

songs although I used sing them when I was younger The thing about them is they help perpetuate the

myth & just make us all look like tw*ts for mocking the dead . At the end of the day it was a tradgedy.

I was at OT at the time of the 40th anniversay when we drew 1-1 (SuperBob) We observed the silence

perfectly although I objected to the threatening letter we received from BWFC before the game, the point

is as soon as the silence was over the Wanderers fans broke into 'we only hate man utd' it was competlely

spontaneous & showed our contempt for them without dishonouring their dead players who in the main as other posters have pointed out were treated shabbily by their club.

 

Their older fans have never really forgiven us for spoiling the 'Munich fairytale' & never will and that will always give me great joy, by the way somewhere in the BEN archives are the pictures of the team bus

being attacked in Irlam I know because I used to have a scrapbook of the 58 final including the said

photographs alas it got lobbed out by my mother who I have long suspected of being a red sypathiser.

Forgot to add the red trim on OUR team strip in the final scene was deliberate even now they & their

sympathisers cant forgive us & have to try to imply that we were irrevelent .........the devil is in the detail & you can't make that sort of mistake accidentally.

Forgot to add the red trim on OUR team strip in the final scene was deliberate even now they & their

sympathisers cant forgive us & have to try to imply that we were irrevelent .........the devil is in the detail & you can't make that sort of mistake accidentally.

 

That would not suprise me.

we should be grateful for small mercies. If Hollywood had made it Bobby Charlton would have been a Yank war hero with a big quiff who got out of his hospital bed to score a last minute winner against a Bolton team who all had upper class English accents and were captained by Jeremy Irons.

Forgot to add the red trim on OUR team strip in the final scene was deliberate even now they & their

sympathisers cant forgive us & have to try to imply that we were irrevelent .........the devil is in the detail & you can't make that sort of mistake accidentally.

 

I think they just re-used the Charlton kit from earlier in the film. A bigger insult was saying that Utd had lost the final 2-0 rather than saying who'd won it.

Lets say for instance, the plane coming back from Schalke on Tuesday crashes. Ferdinand, Vidic, Nani, Giggs, Valencia, Rooney, Hernandez & Berbatov are all killed. Anyone on here seriously think they would 'celebrate' such an event? Maybe the younger ones are brought up with it I don't know?

 

To be fair, despite him getting me loads of points in Fantasy Football this year, I'd be pretty damn chuffed if Nani died in a 'tragic' accident. He's a cunt of the highest order.