I suppose if people are fleeing war in fear of their lives they will be happy to be accommodated anywhere. I have no real issue with the barge and barracks as long as they remain properly supervised and controlled. 
 

I do think the Govt is still ignoring the fact that the fact they have allowed average processing time for asylum applications to stretch to an average of over 400 days is something they need to resolve.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/asylum-backlog
 

7 hours ago, Winchester White said:

Nice work Suella, you are actually worse than Priti.

Even as a cynical political calculation, I've got no idea who this is meant to appeal to.

Absolutely moronic.

9 hours ago, Cheese said:

How is their ethnicity a "major part of their crime"?

Its on record that authorities were scared/ignorant to investigate properly becasue of the perpetrators ethnicity. 

Their ethnicity, culture allowed the absuse to continue and flourish in their particular cases. 

In the same way people were untouchable at the BBC and allowed abuse to continue there. 

Nobody is saying the grooming of young English white girls is a muslim problem per se. But Christ its still a massive massive problem and the fact grooming takes place with other demographics of people should  not detract from the issue.

All cases are not the same. Theres a big problem with Pakistani Muslims grooming English white girls in this country whichever way you want to spin it. Why it happens, why they target who they target, why their communities close shop, why the authorities are kept at arms length has everything to do with their ethnicity. 

 

Edited April 6, 20233 yr by gonzo

8 hours ago, Traf said:

So, what we're saying is that there are actually far more white grooming gangs than there are brown ones?

That's hardly surprising based on demographics. I was surprised to see how many white right-wingers were involved in these gangs, though.

Id say the muslim lot are every bit right wing as this lot with their particular set of beliefs.

10 hours ago, Cheese said:

How is their ethnicity a "major part of their crime"?

Exactly- it's bonkers people keep falling into the traps the government set for them, hook, line and sinker each time.

 

48 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Its on record that authorities were scared/ignorant to investigate properly becasue of the perpetrators ethnicity. 

Their ethnicity, culture allowed the absuse to continue and flourish in their particular cases. 

In the same way people were untouchable at the BBC and allowed abuse to continue there. 

Nobody is saying the grooming of young English white girls is a muslim problem per se. But Christ its still a massive massive problem and the fact grooming takes place with other demographics of people should  not detract from the issue.

All cases are not the same. Theres a big problem with Pakistani Muslims grooming English white girls in this country whichever way you want to spin it. Why it happens, why they target who they target, why their communities close shop, why the authorities are kept at arms length has everything to do with their ethnicity. 

 

But that's precisely why it needs to be dealt with as a holistic issue, not as just focusing on one group, because that why you don't fix the issues, or help the actual victims.

The fact we're being distracted from the real problem of HO incompetence on this topic by keeping focusing on this one avenue of this much larger problem, is exactly what Braverman wants the public to do - hence the public announcements this week; and the point is, it doesn't help stop it nor does it help the victims.

People should be disgusted at the government for playing politics with this issue, instead people just lap it up, it's communications par excellence but shoddy public service.

2 hours ago, Ani said:

I suppose if people are fleeing war in fear of their lives they will be happy to be accommodated anywhere. I have no real issue with the barge and barracks as long as they remain properly supervised and controlled. 
 

I do think the Govt is still ignoring the fact that the fact they have allowed average processing time for asylum applications to stretch to an average of over 400 days is something they need to resolve.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/asylum-backlog
 

Which is why we've got to stuff applications on Rosie and Tim's house barge.

When you're 'exploring all the alternatives' including weekend breaks on the Norfolk Broads, you know something is seriously wrong with the system.

It's fag end of cycle politics and the Conservatives know it.

11 hours ago, royal white said:

Of course you would. 

Totally, totally would. 

Wouldn't even stay if they let me bring my Heartbeat box set on board.

11 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Exactly- it's bonkers people keep falling into the traps the government set for them, hook, line and sinker each time.

 

I don't care what the government say tbh. 

I know what Ive seen with my own eyes. In my own town. In other towns.

This has everything to do with their ethnicity... in those particular cases.

Thats not to say all angst and resources should be targeted on one particular demographic. Each has its own set of circumstances, but to say their ethnicity isnt a contributing factor is absolute bollocks.

Its like saying Jimmy Savilles fame,notoriety and untouchable nature had nothing to with his crimes, grooming is grooming, there is no problem etc.

You cant just tie the whole thing together and treat it as one.

19 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I don't care what the government say tbh. 

I know what Ive seen with my own eyes. In my own town. In other towns.

What have you seen?

17 minutes ago, Cheese said:

What have you seen?

Cases of young white vulnerable girls groomed and abused by muslim gangs and not investigated properly becasue they were muslim gangs.

Its all pretty well documented. Charlene Downes in my own, 100s in others. 

For balance theres always been issues with rent boys in the gay area of town working in saunas for cash. Another problem, another set of circumstances why the perpetrators are protected, either by closing ranks or the police staying well clear.

Dismissing it all as just one big problem is irresponsible and extremely dangerous imo.

Like when a tory mp flounders and someone says "ah well theyre all it" as if that particular case should be all just swept together.

Muslim gangs target vulnerable white girls in this country, because they are vulnerable white girls. Their ethnicity made investigations in to their actions difficult for police. Its bona-fide fact.

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Cases of young white vulnerable girls groomed and abused by muslim gangs and not investigated properly becasue they were muslim gangs.

You've seen it with your own eyes? Did you report it?

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You've seen it with your own eyes? Did you report it?

It had already happened and made the papers. Do you think I was there in the back room of a kebab shop watching muslim men rape 15 year old white girls?

Or did I see double page spreads of muslim gangs who'd been prosecuted well after they shouldve been?

Have I read reports by whistle blowers and the rochdale lass saying coverups and lack of investigations led to more cases?

Would you like me to ring the police and say Hi, theres 4 white girls hanging around kebab shops on central drive? 

31 minutes ago, gonzo said:

It had already happened and made the papers. Do you think I was there in the back room of a kebab shop watching muslim men rape 15 year old white girls?

Or did I see double page spreads of muslim gangs who'd been prosecuted well after they shouldve been?

Have I read reports by whistle blowers and the rochdale lass saying coverups and lack of investigations led to more cases?

Would you like me to ring the police and say Hi, theres 4 white girls hanging around kebab shops on central drive? 

None of that is "with your own eyes" then. You've read about it in the papers and on the internet.

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

None of that is "with your own eyes" then. You've read about it in the papers and on the internet.

Ive worked in areas where grooming in my town has taken place. Groups of young girls, all dolled up knocking about in and around kebab shops. All pissed and smoking weed vapes and the likes. Im not sure if that qualifies as me seeing with my own eyes but it doesnt take a genuis to see what that kind of environment brings. Same as the Blackrod boys getting young girls pissed and taking advantage there.

It's as clear as day.

Then you read the reports of whats taken place. The Charlene Downes case being the biggest of all that still hasnt been sorted after all these years.

In the same way I see young looking lads knocking about the gay sector in town.

You're either blind to the situation or being deliberately obtuse.

Are the reports in the papers made up then? Is there some kind of conspiracy against gangs muslim men? Did those girls not get groomed?

Were there not failings on the polices part due to trepidation in investigations due in turn to the ethnicity of the accused?

 

 

You need to get on street level and open your eyes.

10 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Ive worked in areas where grooming in my town has taken place. Groups of young girls, all dolled up knocking about in and around kebab shops. All pissed and smoking weed vapes and the likes. Im not sure if that qualifies as me seeing with my own eyes but it doesnt take a genuis to see what that kind of environment brings. Same as the Blackrod boys getting young girls pissed and taking advantage there.

It's as clear as day.

Then you read the reports of whats taken place. The Charlene Downes case being the biggest of all that still hasnt been sorted after all these years.

In the same way I see young looking lads knocking about the gay sector in town.

You're either blind to the situation or being deliberately obtuse.

Are the reports in the papers made up then? Is there some kind of conspiracy against gangs muslim men? Did those girls not get groomed?

Were there not failings on the polices part due to trepidation in investigations due in turn to the ethnicity of the accused?

I'm being deliberately obtuse as usual, because I don't really get your point. Especially the "their ethnicity is a major part of their crime" comment. What does that even mean?

Where are those young girls parents? Do they know their daughters are knocking about in kebab shops and smoking weed vapes?

You should definitely listen to that New Agents episode NiC posted.

On 04/04/2023 at 10:24, Not in Crawley said:

Jess Philips was bloody brilliant on yesterday's News Agents podcast

 

Edited April 6, 20233 yr by Cheese

17 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I'm being deliberately obtuse as usual, because I don't really get your point. Especially the "their ethnicity is a major part of their crime" comment. What does that even mean?

Do you not think their ethnicity plays a part on how they view young English white girls?

Do you not think their ethnicity has played a part in the way these gangs are/have been investigated in the past?

Do you not think their ethnicity has played a part in their communities closing ranks?

 

Just now, gonzo said:

Do you not think their ethnicity plays a part on how they view young English white girls?

Do you not think their ethnicity has played a part in the way these gangs are/have been investigated in the past?

Do you not think their ethnicity has played a part in their communities closing ranks?

The same could be said about ANY grooming gang regardless of their ethnicity, couldn't it? Are you suggesting ALL Pakistanis are complicit because some Pakistanis are paedophiles? When there's a White British grooming gang, do you feel responsible for their behaviour?

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/04/03/suella-bravermans-race-based-approach-to-evidence-making/

 

Defending the Home Secretary’s deeply inflammatory comments, the Prime Minister’s spokesman insisted on Monday that the government was taking an “evidence-based” approach to the issue 

Unfortunately, this simply isn’t true. While there has undoubtedly been a real problem of grooming gangs within some British Pakistani communities in recent years, there is no clear evidence that such child sexual abuse is disproportionately found within those communities, or that there is a strong causal link between the offenders’ race and their crimes.

As the Home Office’s own investigation into this issue found in 2020, far from the perpetrators of such crimes “almost all” being British Pakistanis, it is “likely that the ethnicity of group-based [child abuse] offenders is in line with… the general population, with the majority of offenders being White.”

Edited April 6, 20233 yr by Cheese

45 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I'm being deliberately obtuse as usual, because I don't really get your point. Especially the "their ethnicity is a major part of their crime" comment. What does that even mean?

Where are those young girls parents? Do they know their daughters are knocking about in kebab shops and smoking weed vapes?

You should definitely listen to that New Agents episode NiC posted.

Jess phillips skirting round the issue, isn’t brilliant, and it’s not gonna get ex Labour voters returning in droves… and yes I’ve listened to the whole interview. Gonzo is correct… somehow you seem fit to also skirt round the issue that Labour councils ignored the signs and warnings for years for fear of being labelled racist. 

Edited April 6, 20233 yr by Mounts Kipper

8 minutes ago, Cheese said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/04/03/suella-bravermans-race-based-approach-to-evidence-making/

 

Defending the Home Secretary’s deeply inflammatory comments, the Prime Minister’s spokesman insisted on Monday that the government was taking an “evidence-based” approach to the issue 

Unfortunately, this simply isn’t true. While there has undoubtedly been a real problem of grooming gangs within some British Pakistani communities in recent years, there is no clear evidence that such child sexual abuse is disproportionately found within those communities, or that there is a strong causal link between the offenders’ race and their crimes.

As the Home Office’s own investigation into this issue found in 2020, far from the perpetrators of such crimes “almost all” being British Pakistanis, it is “likely that the ethnicity of group-based [child abuse] offenders is in line with… the general population, with the majority of offenders being White.”

The multiple large scale grooming cases mentioned are evidence that there is an issue in the Muslim community (also other communities)  sadly the Tory government have somehow failed to record ethnicity in crimes committed so it seems the numbers cannot be verified, Sunak and braverman seem to think it’s an issue though and have called it out,  as Gonzo points out he’s seen it on the streets of blackpool and many folk seen it across the uk. 

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Jess phillips skirting round the issue, isn’t brilliant, and it’s not gonna get ex Labour voters returning in droves… and yes I’ve listened to the whole interview. Gonzo is correct… somehow you seem fit to also skirt round the issue that Labour councils ignored the signs and warnings for years for fear of labelled racist. 

Not in the slightest. Do you feel responsible for White English grooming gangs? Do you think it indicates a problem in the White English community?

Edited April 6, 20233 yr by Cheese

Just now, Cheese said:

Not in the slightest. Do you feel responsible for White English groomers?

No. Why you ask? 

9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/04/03/suella-bravermans-race-based-approach-to-evidence-making/

 

Defending the Home Secretary’s deeply inflammatory comments, the Prime Minister’s spokesman insisted on Monday that the government was taking an “evidence-based” approach to the issue 

Unfortunately, this simply isn’t true. While there has undoubtedly been a real problem of grooming gangs within some British Pakistani communities in recent years, there is no clear evidence that such child sexual abuse is disproportionately found within those communities, or that there is a strong causal link between the offenders’ race and their crimes.

As the Home Office’s own investigation into this issue found in 2020, far from the perpetrators of such crimes “almost all” being British Pakistanis, it is “likely that the ethnicity of group-based [child abuse] offenders is in line with… the general population, with the majority of offenders being White.”

Im not saying it is in disproportion. Ive just spent all morning saying it isnt ffs.

Im saying theres a still a problem whether its in disproportion or not and the problem cant and shouldn't be tied in to any other set of circumstances. Doing so is dangerous.

IN THE CASES OF MUSLIM GROOMING GANGS only, ethnicity of those involved plays or has played a major part in those particular set of circumstances. Either by the way the crimes have been investigated, the victims targetted and then handled and handling of those being investigated.