Are in Manchester today

Might pop down at lunchtime 

Wonder if they’ll take their plastic bottles home with them?

6 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I've missed your point then. What was it?

Hypocrisy

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

This. Nailed on.

What I've been asking, yet nothing. Waiting for mandating.

What I could do is look at how my pension fund is invested. Aviva have a good range of ESG funds; put my money where my mouth is.

Does one invest for myself, the future of the planet, or are the two inextricably linked anyway?

 

3 hours ago, Boby Brno said:

 

Thanks - it wasn't quite as bad as I was anticipating. But I think they could do with a stronger spokesperson.

I don't know why they feel the need to dramatise when the realities are stark enough anyway. She could have just kept to the facts.

We've got about 12 years to take enough action that we limit global warming to 1.5 degrees. If we can achieve that then we might not see a complete eradication on the planets coral reef (we'll just lose a lot of it). That's what the IPCC are saying.

She was also right to point out that there's been a lot of criticism of the IPCC for being too conservative in its estimates and not considering feedback mechanisms which could accelerate things beyond our control.

I'd be happier if we were massively erring on the side of caution on this one personally. 

He was right to take her to task about being carbon neutral in 6 years. Clearly they're going for a stretching target in the hope that we meet somewhere in the middle. 6 years ain't happening. 

7 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Ok

so what are your solutions?

What actions are you taking?

How are you proceeding?

I've outlined already the steps I think that need to be taken and we all need to accept. 

They're going to be tough but we must take the situation on board. 

To summarise:

Hugely reduce use of cars - massive tax on fuel - realistically we need to disincentive use to make them very very expensive to run and use the revenue gained to fund green energy r&d.

Compulsory insulation standards in all homes - kicking in immediately. 

Heavily rationing of meat

Huge disincentives to fly - and limiting use of flights.

Radical re-working of supply chains - and this will increase costs but we'll have to grin and get on with it.

Acceptance that all energy investment now has to be into carbon neutral forms of energy. 

 

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

Hypocrisy

Why? Is Barrack Obama trying to stop people buying houses near the coastline?

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

What I could do is look at how my pension fund is invested. Aviva have a good range of ESG funds; put my money where my mouth is.

Does one invest for myself, the future of the planet, or are the two inextricably linked anyway?

 

https://www.ipe.com/countries/uk/aviva-launches-ethical-and-esg-workplace-pension-default-strategy/www.ipe.com/countries/uk/aviva-launches-ethical-and-esg-workplace-pension-default-strategy/10032094.fullarticle

only deployment of capital into suitable technologies can solve

1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I've outlined already the steps I think that need to be taken and we all need to accept. 

They're going to be tough but we must take the situation on board. 

To summarise:

Hugely reduce use of cars - massive tax on fuel - realistically we need to disincentive use to make them very very expensive to run and use the revenue gained to fund green energy r&d.

Compulsory insulation standards in all homes - kicking in immediately. 

Heavily rationing of meat

Huge disincentives to fly - and limiting use of flights.

Radical re-working of supply chains - and this will increase costs but we'll have to grin and get on with it.

Acceptance that all energy investment now has to be into carbon neutral forms of energy. 

 

Sure, but that isn’t what I asked

How are you personally looking to improve your picture?

1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I've outlined already the steps I think that need to be taken and we all need to accept. 

They're going to be tough but we must take the situation on board. 

To summarise:

Hugely reduce use of cars - massive tax on fuel - realistically we need to disincentive use to make them very very expensive to run and use the revenue gained to fund green energy r&d.

Compulsory insulation standards in all homes - kicking in immediately. 

Heavily rationing of meat

Huge disincentives to fly - and limiting use of flights.

Radical re-working of supply chains - and this will increase costs but we'll have to grin and get on with it.

Acceptance that all energy investment now has to be into carbon neutral forms of energy. 

 

Much to agree with. But I repeat, as things stand, any government which proposes such is likely to be resisted in the polls unless it can find a way to offset damage to the economy.

Certain scope would have to be protected in some way.

A massive increase in effectiveness of public transport would be essential, and perhaps even moreso a move back to 'localism'.

All things which necessitate changes in society; the way we work and live. Plenty of which we as individuals can achieve almost immediately. If we want.

5 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Why? Is Barrack Obama trying to stop people buying houses near the coastline?

Banging on about climate change and rising sea levels then buys a house on the beach. You can call it hypocritical or dumb, take your pick 

8 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I've outlined already the steps I think that need to be taken and we all need to accept. 

They're going to be tough but we must take the situation on board. 

To summarise:

Hugely reduce use of cars - massive tax on fuel - realistically we need to disincentive use to make them very very expensive to run and use the revenue gained to fund green energy r&d.

Compulsory insulation standards in all homes - kicking in immediately. 

Heavily rationing of meat

Huge disincentives to fly - and limiting use of flights.

Radical re-working of supply chains - and this will increase costs but we'll have to grin and get on with it.

Acceptance that all energy investment now has to be into carbon neutral forms of energy. 

 

I ain’t giving up my T bones or holidays for no one! 

4 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Sure, but that isn’t what I asked

How are you personally looking to improve your picture?

I fully accept I'm not perfect. I don't think anyone is. That's why this stuff has to be collective and has to be mandated. It has to be a collective will but equally it has to be driven by government.

I've consciously reduced meat intake and have reduced my car usage to an absolute minimum. I spend an hour extra a day to get to work using public transport. I'm not perfect - I have to drive to meetings - I could choose to use PT but it would mean overnight stays which I often don't want. If I was forced to I'd suck it up though. 

I have solar panels on the roof, and had the loft insulation replaced. But that is tip of the iceberg stuff. In recent months I've been thinking more and more about the things I do and what I can reduce. 

Flying is the big  one - I have to fly sometimes for work and there currently isn't a way round it. If however they made flights much more difficult - then I'd suggest we'd stop doing it. 

5 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Much to agree with. But I repeat, as things stand, any government which proposes such is likely to be resisted in the polls unless it can find a way to offset damage to the economy.

Certain scope would have to be protected in some way.

A massive increase in effectiveness of public transport would be essential, and perhaps even moreso a move back to 'localism'.

All things which necessitate changes in society; the way we work and live. Plenty of which we as individuals can achieve almost immediately. If we want.

But isn't that why the message of "this isn't a choice its a simple necessity" that ER and others are currently giving so important?

It isn't a choice. It isn't something we can say "nah not up for that". And I think whether they use the right tactics or not - that's the message that is slowly sinking in with me but I guess needs to across the country. Until it does you can't achieve anything. And it needs to happen like last week. So I'd argue there isn't the time to do a slow "persuasion". 

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

Banging on about climate change and rising sea levels then buys a house on the beach. You can call it hypocritical or dumb, take your pick 

I imagine hes considered whether the property he is allegedly buying is actually at risk from rising sea levels?

Some areas are at high risk - some at a lower risk.

5 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I've outlined already the steps I think that need to be taken and we all need to accept. 

They're going to be tough but we must take the situation on board. 

To summarise:

Hugely reduce use of cars - massive tax on fuel - realistically we need to disincentive use to make them very very expensive to run and use the revenue gained to fund green energy r&d.

Compulsory insulation standards in all homes - kicking in immediately. 

Heavily rationing of meat

Huge disincentives to fly - and limiting use of flights.

Radical re-working of supply chains - and this will increase costs but we'll have to grin and get on with it.

Acceptance that all energy investment now has to be into carbon neutral forms of energy. 

 

I’ve highlighted previously that developing countries are taking us over when it comes to consumption. It’ll be impossible to prevent them developing further. I mentioned China but a report I read yesterday said that the biggest increase in air travel was in India, then China followed by Russia. You can add the other consumable commodities to the list. I’m not trying to be negative to the issue, just realistic.

Just now, royal white said:

I ain’t giving up my T bones or holidays for no one! 

That's the nub of it. In all seriousness, how far would you go?

I saw again last night, the adver about bp. They're working with fulcrum bio fuels in California to produce jet fuel from green waste.

I can't comment on the effeciency etc of the process, but surely this is the sort of technological solutions that XR should be bringing to the fore. Lobby government and industry to invest in such, if they're not already doing so.

Perhaps then we might still be able to have a moderate cake and an occasional slice.

I might have to consult with Miami over the possibility and viability of investing in some of these companies!

1 minute ago, Boby Brno said:

I’ve highlighted previously that developing countries are taking us over when it comes to consumption. It’ll be impossible to prevent them developing further. I mentioned China but a report I read yesterday said that the biggest increase in air travel was in India, then China followed by Russia. You can add the other consumable commodities to the list. I’m not trying to be negative to the issue, just realistic.

That doesn't mean we don't do whatever we can to meet and exceed our targets whilst persuading others to do the same....not sure what other option you are proposing?

1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said:

That doesn't mean we don't do whatever we can to meet and exceed our targets whilst persuading others to do the same....not sure what other option you are proposing?

I agree with that. If we can provide technological solutions, we can export them as part of economic change. Also, if necessary put levies on certain imports. Prefer the carrot method though.

12 minutes ago, royal white said:

I ain’t giving up my T bones or holidays for no one! 

The stakes are far higher than a week in the sun and a nice steak. As much as I agree giving those up is very painful - it will be more painful for our kids to live in a world with major cities becoming uninhabitable.

I also think that we've delayed so long the measures required become more and more extreme - so lets stop making it worse and do something now. That might mean not eating steak so often for example - rather than never. 

One option is the removal of domestic UK flights at least under a certain distance.

One from my personal feelings is that motability cars should be at least hybrid if not fully electric.vim not talking about the blue spaz chariots from the burnden days. Looking at getting a new car on motability and wanted to get a green car as we need it to get the missus to and from places sometimes. All the hybrids etc work out prohibitively expensive compared to petrol/diesel

15 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

One option is the removal of domestic UK flights at least under a certain distance.

One from my personal feelings is that motability cars should be at least hybrid if not fully electric.vim not talking about the blue spaz chariots from the burnden days. Looking at getting a new car on motability and wanted to get a green car as we need it to get the missus to and from places sometimes. All the hybrids etc work out prohibitively expensive compared to petrol/diesel

Wouldn't a top up loan to make up the difference, which could then be paid back and then some, with fuel savings?

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Wouldn't a top up loan to make up the difference, which could then be paid back and then some, with fuel savings?

You use your mobility component of PIP/DLA to lease a car. Basic cars are available for 0 deposit fancier ones require a cash deposit.

All that said I've just had a look and we could get a Hyundai ionic or Toyota Prius for no deposit so ignore that.

23 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

That doesn't mean we don't do whatever we can to meet and exceed our targets whilst persuading others to do the same....not sure what other option you are proposing?

25 Years ago, I visited a foundry in the midlands that was producing the hub for the first wind turbines. There are now 10,000 in the Uk. That will double in the next 10 years. Technology is progressing all the time. It’s just one example of how we have and will progress. 

There is a will and a means to constantly improve. To say that ER have highlighted the problem is nonsense. The problem was there 30 years ago.

I agree on the car issue though. It’s crazy the number of cars on the road here in the UK. That’s a local pollution problem though.

8 minutes ago, Boby Brno said:

25 Years ago, I visited a foundry in the midlands that was producing the hub for the first wind turbines. There are now 10,000 in the Uk. That will double in the next 10 years. Technology is progressing all the time. It’s just one example of how we have and will progress. 

There is a will and a means to constantly improve. To say that ER have highlighted the problem is nonsense. The problem was there 30 years ago.

I agree on the car issue though. It’s crazy the number of cars on the road here in the UK. That’s a local pollution problem though.

But we aren't improving or changing fast enough to stop the warming - we will not meet our own targets as things stand. 

2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

But we aren't improving or changing fast enough to stop the warming - we will not meet our own targets as things stand. 

We are doing reasonably;

https://www.theccc.org.uk/tackling-climate-change/reducing-carbon-emissions/how-the-uk-is-progressing/

 

Just now, bwfcfan5 said:

But we aren't improving or changing fast enough to stop the warming - we will not meet our own targets as things stand. 

15 countries produce 2/3 of the worlds c02 emissions. We aren’t one of them. Some of them are actually increasing.

Even if we met the ER target by 2025, it wouldn’t make any difference.