Are in Manchester today

Might pop down at lunchtime 

Wonder if they’ll take their plastic bottles home with them?

5 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I'm not convinced you can leave it up to personal choice. It has to be mandated. And we have to force the mandate onto policymakers to come back down.

Everyone more or less who wants to change things will be a hypocrite in one way or another. The point is we need a plan that hits the targets and exceeds the targets - and whatever that plan is we'll have to get on with it - to save the planet. There isn't a choice. 

And if that means I have to give up the car and get a train or bus everywhere then so be it. If it means meat is heavily taxed and rationed, so be it. If it means we can't fly anymore so be it.

I'm not arguing that I'm better than anyone else. Simply that talking about things other than the crisis is just ignoring it. 

I suggested that earlier and you said parliament can't do certain things. You also said people have to make a difference.

So go on. Do it. Stop flying etc. Don't wait for mandates etc.

If not, then you're illustrating the very issue that will prevent a government from legislating, without sufficient public backing they won't go far enough for fear of losing office.

A lot of folk shouting that more needs to be done, but few offering ideas, solutions or taking initiative and doing enough themselves.

1 minute ago, royal white said:

So why couldn’t the trees have been taken to the MPs towns? 

Why couldn’t some senior members take the research papers to the department of transport? 

Why is there a need for them to camp out on main roads preventing people doing their jobs? That kind of action doesn’t plant trees or deliver papers. 

Why couldn’t they demo in the numerous parks in London, have a stage with some live music to dance too. Get high profile backers to get on stage and push their points. 

When you start fucking with peoples every day lives, when you start costing the government millions, you will more than likely piss off more people rather than gaining support.

They might be able to now they've raised their profile.

How many cameras do you think would have turned up if an unknown environmental pressure group had rung the BBC and told them they were taking some research papers to the department of transport?

Those arguments about potentially alienating people who's support they need to rely on won't be new news to XR. I'm sure they're acutely aware of it. And they've taken a calculated risk.

Why don't you start a FLA against climate change? I reckon most of us would come on that.

8 minutes ago, royal white said:

So why couldn’t the trees have been taken to the MPs towns? 

Why couldn’t some senior members take the research papers to the department of transport? 

Why is there a need for them to camp out on main roads preventing people doing their jobs? That kind of action doesn’t plant trees or deliver papers. 

Why couldn’t they demo in the numerous parks in London, have a stage with some live music to dance too. Get high profile backers to get on stage and push their points. 

When you start fucking with peoples every day lives, when you start costing the government millions, you will more than likely piss off more people rather than gaining support.

Good question.

The simple answer- because people have been doing that for decades & have been completely ignored. It hasn't worked or changed anything. Whereas these actions are raising awareness & the movement is growing. Though it will always piss people off. When a government fails to respond to collapse of the natural world and society, expect civil disobedience.

The cost of not acting now will cost us Trillions.

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by London Wanderer

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

They might be able to now they've raised their profile.

How many cameras do you think would have turned up if an unknown environmental pressure group had rung the BBC and told them they were taking some research papers to the department of transport?

Those arguments about potentially alienating people who's support they need to rely on won't be new news to XR. I'm sure they're acutely aware of it. And they've taken a calculated risk.

Why don't you start a FLA against climate change? I reckon most of us would come on that.

And how much money could have been saved that could have been potentially used for “climate projects” tens of millions wasted because people want to glue themselves to cars, camp out and do whatever other shite they’re doing.

 

FLA? 

4 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Good question.

The simple answer- because people have been doing that for decades & have been completely ignored. It hasn't worked or changed anything. Whereas these actions are raising awareness & the movement is growing. Though it will always piss people off. When a government fails to respond to collapse of the natural world and society, expect civil disobedience.

The cost of not acting now will cost us Trillions.

I think more and more households have made changes that’s why a lot of people are pissed off with the protests. Granted the protests may be aimed at the bigger cooperations but going back to what I said originally if you fuck with peoples everyday lives it isn’t going to go down to well.

the government by all accounts has been responding, however I’m sure no matter how much they respond and what future actions they take, it will never be enough for the protestors who will always want to have another demo. 

19 minutes ago, royal white said:

And how much money could have been saved that could have been potentially used for “climate projects” tens of millions wasted because people want to glue themselves to cars, camp out and do whatever other shite they’re doing.

 

FLA? 

I don't know how much it's cost. A fair whack I suppose. And maybe if it was being spent on "climate projects" they wouldn't feel the need to protest.

Anyway - we're going around in circles and neither of us is going to convince the other one. So shall we just leave it at - we both agree something needs doing - but that I'm happy for XR to cause a bit of disruption of that's what it takes, but that you think it's counter productive?

Either way I know where I'd rather be than at a wedding in Devon....!

 

FLA - Football Lads Alliance btw

1 hour ago, royal white said:

So why couldn’t the trees have been taken to the MPs towns? 

Why couldn’t some senior members take the research papers to the department of transport? 

Why is there a need for them to camp out on main roads preventing people doing their jobs? That kind of action doesn’t plant trees or deliver papers. 

Why couldn’t they demo in the numerous parks in London, have a stage with some live music to dance too. Get high profile backers to get on stage and push their points. 

When you start fucking with peoples every day lives, when you start costing the government millions, you will more than likely piss off more people rather than gaining support.

Aye. 

If there was such an event as LW has described up here, I'd love to go along. Just don't want the obstructive bit.

56 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Good question.

The simple answer- because people have been doing that for decades & have been completely ignored. It hasn't worked or changed anything. Whereas these actions are raising awareness & the movement is growing. Though it will always piss people off. When a government fails to respond to collapse of the natural world and society, expect civil disobedience.

The cost of not acting now will cost us Trillions.

Do you really believe new awareness is as a result of protests?

I think that is terribly misguided. Far more information and awareness has been gleaned from television and work of people like David Attenborough and news articles about global warming.

I've not heard or seen a single new bit of information from these protests.

I can't accept that the very things you've described as going on in the park are of little use.

Previously, maybe, but awareness is now at a much higher level: put your energies into these events. Don't exclude folk.

4 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not right interested in quantifying insults frankly.

Yours is just another.

Pointless and achieves nothing.

I've put some suggestions up earlier about things that could be done easily and others less so. I'd quite like LW to take these to XR together with concerns about aspects of their behaviour.

Feel free to join in and offer something yourself.

Beg your pardon? I’m not excusing an insults, I’m just pointing out the flaw in the point you were trying to make.

2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

We need to exceed our bit - that's priority number 1. Priority over and above anything else. Jobs, people's lifestyles, economies - everything. Because this is quite literally about the immediate future of our planet Everything else pales into insignificance. 
If enough people take action around the world then eventually it will make a difference and the wave of change will be impossible to ignore. 

Just

not

happening

Humans aren’t wired like that

unfortunately

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Aye. 

If there was such an event as LW has described up here, I'd love to go along. Just don't want the obstructive bit.

LW used to be Little Whitt

 

how times have changed 

Not the best of ideas to send a spokesperson from ER on to the Andrew Neil show. Crackpot ideas perfectly shown up with plain facts. Stop frightening the kids!

1 hour ago, Boby Brno said:

Not the best of ideas to send a spokesperson from ER on to the Andrew Neil show. Crackpot ideas perfectly shown up with plain facts. Stop frightening the kids!

I’ve just watched it..... it didn’t quite go to plan did it 😂

4 hours ago, Boby Brno said:

Not the best of ideas to send a spokesperson from ER on to the Andrew Neil show. Crackpot ideas perfectly shown up with plain facts. Stop frightening the kids!

What did they say? Have you got a link?

6 hours ago, Boby Brno said:

Not the best of ideas to send a spokesperson from ER on to the Andrew Neil show. Crackpot ideas perfectly shown up with plain facts. Stop frightening the kids!

I'll be seeking that out on catch up.

I have yet to hear anything other than hysterical nonsense from the spokespersons I have seen up to press. They come across as flakey alternatives finally basking in the warm glow of some media attention after years of acting the cunt dressed like a cross between a Klingon and a circus clown has failed to deliver the desired result.

I repeat, I am in favour of the general cause - just not these gobshites causing mayhem and obstruction. Sparkplug spanner head Thunberg can fuck off too. That screwed up grimace of a face and doom monger delivery makes it even less appropriate to be lectured by a snot nosed kid who I'd wager was a loner at skoo.

7 hours ago, kent_white said:

What did they say? Have you got a link?

 

Will I have to give up the man who cleans my sunglasses by the pool?

 

A grown man slagging off a 16 year old autistic kid, tells you all you ever need to know about the man. 

2 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

A grown man slagging off a 16 year old autistic kid, tells you all you ever need to know about the man. 

??

Its unbelievable how people are wanting to dissect shock claims - with the facts that are in themselves shocking. "Look yes, I accept the sea levels will rise and that will cause problems all over the world but there won't be billions dying immediately". Oh well that's ok then. 

Its basically - do anything - say anything to try and distract from the issue at hand. An issue that they accept now (having spent decades trying to deny it in the face of irrefutable evidence) - with the new tactic of trying to suggest those who want to tackle it are loonies.

Quite incredible really. 

22 minutes ago, royal white said:

??

!!

17 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

!!

Did Andrew Neil slag off a 16 year old autistic kid? 

22 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Its unbelievable how people are wanting to dissect shock claims - with the facts that are in themselves shocking. "Look yes, I accept the sea levels will rise and that will cause problems all over the world but there won't be billions dying immediately". Oh well that's ok then. 

Its basically - do anything - say anything to try and distract from the issue at hand. An issue that they accept now (having spent decades trying to deny it in the face of irrefutable evidence) - with the new tactic of trying to suggest those who want to tackle it are loonies.

Quite incredible really. 

Crazy ain’t it, sea levels are rising yet climate change supporters like Obama and Al Gore spend millions on beach front properties. Who’d have thunk it

1 minute ago, royal white said:

Crazy ain’t it, sea levels are rising yet climate change supporters like Obama and Al Gore spend millions on beach front properties. Who’d have thunk it

And once again - dodge the issue and distract from it with some utterly meaningless whataboutism. 

Pathetic. Utterly pathetic.