Are in Manchester today

Might pop down at lunchtime 

Wonder if they’ll take their plastic bottles home with them?

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

Woah - hang on there fella. KW has saying that if someone can't see the bigger picture, then they're not aiding a cause. What RW does is lump a lot of people together and dismiss them in pejorative terms without any real insight into any individuals beliefs - or more specifically - washing regimes.

Its a non-sequitur of an stance to combine the two and mutter hypocrisy. 

They’re camping out in central London. They have limited access to running water/showers/baths etc. I would put a good wager down that the majority of them haven’t washed since arriving.

Just now, royal white said:

He does seem to fit the hypocrisy description 🤔

I've no issue with Kent's environmental beliefs. I just don't understand the business of chucking insults about on this subject, either way.

There is a great irony about aspects of XR, and I believe some of their approach is hugely misguided, but I agree with the basic premise.

Hence why folk are sceptical about them and their impact is debatable.

On the other hand they gave all MPs a tree the other day- perhaps more of a gesture than a huge statement, but that's something I regard as far more positive. Reaching out in a more approachable less confrontational manner.

Stick with this line and seek to work alongside authorities has to be the way forward.

4 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Woah - hang on there fella. KW has saying that if someone can't see the bigger picture, then they're not aiding a cause. What RW does is lump a lot of people together and dismiss them in pejorative terms without any real insight into any individuals beliefs - or more specifically - washing regimes.

Its a non-sequitur of an stance to combine the two and mutter hypocrisy. 

Not right interested in quantifying insults frankly.

Yours is just another.

Pointless and achieves nothing.

I've put some suggestions up earlier about things that could be done easily and others less so. I'd quite like LW to take these to XR together with concerns about aspects of their behaviour.

Feel free to join in and offer something yourself.

I’m going to mention China again.

in 2007 185 mil. people took a flight.

in 2017 551 mil. people took a flight.

Passenger numbers are growing by 10% a year. That’s more than every person in the UK every year and growing. Other developing nations are also increasing as they become more affluent. 

When we are all going to Blackpool, Benidorm will be full of Chinese and Indians and Czechs and Latvians etc.

16 minutes ago, Boby Brno said:

I’m going to mention China again.

in 2007 185 mil. people took a flight.

in 2017 551 mil. people took a flight.

Passenger numbers are growing by 10% a year. That’s more than every person in the UK every year and growing. Other developing nations are also increasing as they become more affluent. 

When we are all going to Blackpool, Benidorm will be full of Chinese and Indians and Czechs and Latvians etc.

It needs to be a global effort yes. Everyone has to do an awful lot. Why shouldn't we be one of the leads though?

7 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

It needs to be a global effort yes. Everyone has to do an awful lot. Why shouldn't we be one of the leads though?

Aren’t we, though?

1 minute ago, boltondiver said:

Aren’t we, though?

Yep

34 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Aren’t we, though?

We're not doing nearly enough. That's the point. 

Just now, bwfcfan5 said:

We're not doing nearly enough. That's the point. 

But we are leaders?

 

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

But we are leaders?

 

If we're not on track to hit (what some would claim inadequate targets) then whether we're leading or not is irrelevant. If we are leaders then we need to do considerably better or we're all in an awful lot of trouble. 

 

Just now, bwfcfan5 said:

If we're not on track to hit (what some would claim inadequate targets) then whether we're leading or not is irrelevant. If we are leaders then we need to do considerably better or we're all in an awful lot of trouble. 

 

But you said “why can’t we lead?”

and now you agree that we are leaders?

nuff said

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

But you said “why can’t we lead?”

and now you agree that we are leaders?

nuff said

During the SI debate yesterday, it was explained that uk experts are indeed heavily involved in research projects for the benefit of the world.

I think we all know we can do more, the in your face screeching doesn't sit well though.

Following the tea bag concern, she went out to buy a tea strainer so we can use loose leaf. Made sure it was not made in china.

Trivial, yes, but if everyone starts doing similar, then eventually the Chinese will start to notice.

11 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

But you said “why can’t we lead?”

and now you agree that we are leaders?

nuff said

Not really because you're missing the point and you know it.

We're not doing enough. Nobody is. But everyone needs to start last week. 

No point taking this down side streets - there shouldn't be any need for protests this should have been fixed decades ago. Instead the world has delayed it and now we're at the point of no return. So what do you want to do? Complain about scruffy folk pointing this out. Or get on and ensure that this crisis is the focus for the next 3 decades and every single thing possible is done to avert it?

1 hour ago, Boby Brno said:

I’m going to mention China again.

in 2007 185 mil. people took a flight.

in 2017 551 mil. people took a flight.

Passenger numbers are growing by 10% a year. That’s more than every person in the UK every year and growing. Other developing nations are also increasing as they become more affluent. 

When we are all going to Blackpool, Benidorm will be full of Chinese and Indians and Czechs and Latvians etc.

Perhaps benidorm will be a far less attractive place to go by then; suggestions that many places will become too hot/arid etc.

I accept what you're saying, but by behaving in a more sustainable manner, I think many will follow.

Either that or the climate will bite them back.

Although they may have stolen some of the technology, at least the Chinese are building huge solar farms so are doing something positive. 

Buggers building coal fired power stations doesn't help though.

1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Not really because you're missing the point and you know it.

We're not doing enough. Nobody is. But everyone needs to start last week. 

No point taking this down side streets - there shouldn't be any need for protests this should have been fixed decades ago. Instead the world has delayed it and now we're at the point of no return. So what do you want to do? Complain about scruffy folk pointing this out. Or get on and ensure that this crisis is the focus for the next 3 decades and every single thing possible is done to avert it?

You made the point!!!!

I agree we aren’t doing enough.

But, if we are leaders, despite not doing enough, when are these goody goodies going to take on China?

answer? Never, not got the bollocks

8 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

 

 Or get on and ensure that this crisis is the focus for the next 3 decades and every single thing possible is done to avert it?

Quite.

How far are you prepared to go though? So far only Kent has responded with regard to flights and holidays etc.

Would you change what you do in this regard?

What would you accept with regard to car ownership/usage and diesel/petrol?

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by Tonge moor green jacket

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Quite.

How far are you prepared to go though? So far only Kent has responded with regard to flights and holidays etc.

Would you change what you do in this regard?

What would you accept with regard to car ownership/usage and diesel/petrol?

Another point about that. I'm driving down to Devon tonight in a diesel car for a wedding. I'm contributing to CO2 emissions - I know I am. That makes me a hypocrite (as many have pointed out on here). I could have flown down though - and have done in the past.

That's the main issue for me. Our whole infrastructure is set up so that you either choose to go completely off grid (swampy style). Or you're complicit in the hypocrisy because you've little choice because our whole lifestyle is based around using energy. 

As far as the 'leadership' thing goes. It's a tallest dwarf competition. We're on track to hit phase three of our emissions targets but off track for phase four. And we're one of the better ones.

Then you've got countries like the US - right down at the bottom of the pile with states like Iran. 

So that's why I support XR - it's supposed to be a global movement - on a globe where no country is doing anywhere near enough. We live in the UK - so we affect what we can in the UK. I can't help China. 

 

1 hour ago, royal white said:

It’s not trolling. If the questions are to difficult just say.

Of course your questions are difficult to answer because they are based on sweeping generalisations & a naive narrative from certain sensationalist media sources.

You see one picture from Trafalgar Square & assume it represents everyone. I've been into McDonald's to use the toilet because they were one on the businesses that we called weeks ago who said protestors could use toilets.

Currently sat by a camp in St. James' Park where there are workshops on all sorts of environmental issues. Yesterday activists took one thousand trees to parliament, one for each MP to plant in their constituency. At the same time local London community groups & scientists marched on the Transport department with a research paper linking air pollution to increased rates of cancer. You see a couple of pictures & somehow think they represent 30,000 people. Just now hundreds of Mothers and babies are marching on parliament.

Acknowledged the bigger picture, broaden your media sources & FB wall & I will happily take your questions buddy.

At least Boris Johnson's father is on our side. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49987567

 

S

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

Another point about that. I'm driving down to Devon tonight in a diesel car for a wedding. I'm contributing to CO2 emissions - I know I am. That makes me a hypocrite (as many have pointed out on here). I could have flown down though - and have done in the past.

That's the main issue for me. Our whole infrastructure is set up so that you either choose to go completely off grid (swampy style). Or you're complicit in the hypocrisy because you've little choice because our whole lifestyle is based around using energy. 

As far as the 'leadership' thing goes. It's a tallest dwarf competition. We're on track to hit phase three of our emissions targets but off track for phase four. And we're one of the better ones.

Then you've got countries like the US - right down at the bottom of the pile with states like Iran. 

So that's why I support XR - it's supposed to be a global movement - on a globe where no country is doing anywhere near enough. We live in the UK - so we affect what we can in the UK. I can't help China. 

 

So looking at the bigger picture, if the likes of China, America, Iran and other massive nations aren’t pulling their weight then no matter what we do it will be in vain? 

2 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Another point about that. I'm driving down to Devon tonight in a diesel car for a wedding. I'm contributing to CO2 emissions - I know I am. That makes me a hypocrite (as many have pointed out on here). I could have flown down though - and have done in the past.

That's the main issue for me. Our whole infrastructure is set up so that you either choose to go completely off grid (swampy style). Or you're complicit in the hypocrisy because you've little choice because our whole lifestyle is based around using energy. 

As far as the 'leadership' thing goes. It's a tallest dwarf competition. We're on track to hit phase three of our emissions targets but off track for phase four. And we're one of the better ones.

Then you've got countries like the US - right down at the bottom of the pile with states like Iran. 

So that's why I support XR - it's supposed to be a global movement - on a globe where no country is doing anywhere near enough. We live in the UK - so we affect what we can in the UK. I can't help China. 

 

Agree wholeheartedly about the infrastructure as it stands here. That is something we should be looking at. In doing so we can then inspire other nations. Take a bit of a leap of faith if necessary.

As for China, you can make a difference, check what you are buying and source products from elsewhere as much as possible.

12 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Quite.

How far are you prepared to go though? So far only Kent has responded with regard to flights and holidays etc.

Would you change what you do in this regard?

What would you accept with regard to car ownership/usage and diesel/petrol?

I'm not convinced you can leave it up to personal choice. It has to be mandated. And we have to force the mandate onto policymakers to come back down.

Everyone more or less who wants to change things will be a hypocrite in one way or another. The point is we need a plan that hits the targets and exceeds the targets - and whatever that plan is we'll have to get on with it - to save the planet. There isn't a choice. 

And if that means I have to give up the car and get a train or bus everywhere then so be it. If it means meat is heavily taxed and rationed, so be it. If it means we can't fly anymore so be it.

I'm not arguing that I'm better than anyone else. Simply that talking about things other than the crisis is just ignoring it. 

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

S

So looking at the bigger picture, if the likes of China, America, Iran and other massive nations aren’t pulling their weight then no matter what we do it will be in vain? 

We need to exceed our bit - that's priority number 1. Priority over and above anything else. Jobs, people's lifestyles, economies - everything. Because this is quite literally about the immediate future of our planet Everything else pales into insignificance. 
If enough people take action around the world then eventually it will make a difference and the wave of change will be impossible to ignore. 

8 minutes ago, royal white said:

S

So looking at the bigger picture, if the likes of China, America, Iran and other massive nations aren’t pulling their weight then no matter what we do it will be in vain? 

Many of our big banks, corporations & government departments invest in Chinese, American, Iranian & Russian companies & set up business over there. They do this because the CO2 emissions emitted there do not count as our own. I would like to point out im not coming from anti-capitalist point of view. Only pointing out the facts. 

Many of the top 20 polluting corporations have bases in this country.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/09/revealed-20-firms-third-carbon-emissions

We are responsible for far more than the statistics say.

Even if we weren't.. the smallest of countries can still inspire change worldwide. We can do something amazing as a nation.

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by London Wanderer

3 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Of course your questions are difficult to answer because they are based on sweeping generalisations & a naive narrative from certain sensationalist media sources.

You see one picture from Trafalgar Square & assume it represents everyone. I've been into McDonald's to use the toilet because they were one on the businesses that we called weeks ago who said protestors could use toilets.

Currently sat by a camp in St. James' Park where there are workshops on all sorts of environmental issues. Yesterday activists took one thousand trees to parliament, one for each MP to plant in their constituency. At the same time local London community groups & scientists marched on the Transport department with a research paper linking air pollution to increased rates of cancer. You see a couple of pictures & somehow think they represent 30,000 people. Just now hundreds of Mothers and babies are marching on parliament.

Acknowledged the bigger picture, broaden your media sources & FB wall & I will happily take your questions buddy.

At least Boris Johnson's father is on our side. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49987567

 

Sounds good. No issue with any of that. Evidence of financial investment achieving savings later. Economic benefits 

Any chance of similar event up here, say in Heaton park etc. Leave the unnecessary bits alone please.

1 minute ago, London Wanderer said:

Of course your questions are difficult to answer because they are based on sweeping generalisations & a naive narrative from certain sensationalist media sources.

You see one picture from Trafalgar Square & assume it represents everyone. I've been into McDonald's to use the toilet because they were one on the businesses that we called weeks ago who said protestors could use toilets.

Currently sat by a camp in St. James' Park where there are workshops on all sorts of environmental issues. Yesterday activists took one thousand trees to parliament, one for each MP to plant in their constituency. At the same time local London community groups & scientists marched on the Transport department with a research paper linking air pollution to increased rates of cancer. You see a couple of pictures & somehow think they represent 30,000 people. Just now hundreds of Mothers and babies are marching on parliament.

Acknowledged the bigger picture, broaden your media sources & FB wall & I will happily take your questions buddy.

At least Boris Johnson's father is on our side. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49987567

 

So why couldn’t the trees have been taken to the MPs towns? 

Why couldn’t some senior members take the research papers to the department of transport? 

Why is there a need for them to camp out on main roads preventing people doing their jobs? That kind of action doesn’t plant trees or deliver papers. 

Why couldn’t they demo in the numerous parks in London, have a stage with some live music to dance too. Get high profile backers to get on stage and push their points. 

When you start fucking with peoples every day lives, when you start costing the government millions, you will more than likely piss off more people rather than gaining support.