Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Weren’t a number of the protesters seen in McDonalds? Probably just using the loo Quite probably. That's why that chap having a rant above should also be addressing the protesters in the same way. I'd like xr etc to offer up some serious proposals as to what the government should be doing. Put it out there for parliament and the wider public to look at. Back it up with science and maybe online 'voting' to assess how much backing there would be. Make this a proper functioning movement and not just a protest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Some fair stuff there. I'd pick one point out of that- a question to everyone on here How many will no longer take holidays abroad that involve flights? What would your response be if the government said it would ban all holiday flights within 2 years. (Unless there are powered by bio jet fuel which is being developed- b.p. I think)? Here is an article https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/jul/19/carbon-calculator-how-taking-one-flight-emits-as-much-as-many-people-do-in-a-year So while it is quite right that governments must take greater action, the idea that as individuals we are very limited in what we can do is completely wrong. It's a good question. I haven't flown in two & a half years & would support legislation. Our government still subsidises aviation & the industry lobbied their sweet arses out of any commitment to the Paris agreement targets. We need to stop subsidies ASAP and a tax on frequent flyers. 50 percent of all flights are taken by 10 percent of frequent flyers. So a tax levy on these people & companies first would be the fairest way to enable a massive reduction without stopping a hard earned family holiday once every 1-2 years. In the meantime, this country is lush. Let's regenerate our seaside towns & encourage more eco tourism so people take less frequent holidays abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, London Wanderer said: It's a good question. I haven't flown in two & a half years & would support legislation. Our government still subsidises aviation & the industry lobbied their sweet arses out of any commitment to the Paris agreement targets. We need to stop subsidies ASAP and a tax on frequent flyers. 50 percent of all flights are taken by 10 percent of frequent flyers. So a tax levy on these people & companies first would be the fairest way to enable a massive reduction without stopping a hard earned family holiday once every 1-2 years. In the meantime, this country is lush. Let's regenerate our seaside towns & encourage more eco tourism so people take less frequent holidays abroad. Utilise those levies to fund research and manufacturing of bio fuels produced from green waste. Ok it won't necessarily provide enough to match current demand, but it might fuel a reduced industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Environment trumps government for me. Parliament has just tied the hands of government and been backed by the court so it isn't without precedent. If there's sufficient will, parliament can legislate in such a way as to make all successive governments adhere to an agreed set of rules in this area. Previously you said yourself that a government risks losing out if it's policies are deemed Draconian (I'm paraphrasing). That has to be taken away. It is indeed down to people, but as we all know, for some (probably plenty) a big stick will also be needed. Government of the day needs to be confident it can legislate accordingly, without then losing out to an opposition who promises to undo something as a vote winner. Put stuff into law like drink driving for example. No government is going to overturn it. Environmental activities only I should add, otherwise we begin to move away from democracy. Parliament and government is not the same. A sitting parliament can set laws - but a future parliament has right to overturn or change them. There is no parliamentary mechanism to force an agreement on future parliaments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2019 Whilst we're at it, some other ideas. As part of the green waste collection system. All waste cooking oils and fats must be collected from users and sent to sites for processing into fuel. Start with commercial entities, restaurants and takeaways. Supply suitable vessels which are used for storage at the premises and then taken away, emptied cleaned and reused. Roll it out to domestic users too. Stop the fatbergs. A packaging levy that is reinvested into means of allowing folk to bring their own storage vessels for filling up in shops. A commitment to reduce out of season products being flown in to the country to satisfy an artificially created demand; focus on seasonal, locally produced stuff where possible, and if necessary frozen produce. (Renewable energy to power freezers). The biggy: cars- ban the sale of all new petrol/diesel cars after 5 years (open to debate) and the use of all petrol/diesel cars after 10 years. Similarly with buses- most only do relatively short journeys so electric power becomes less problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Parliament and government is not the same. A sitting parliament can set laws - but a future parliament has right to overturn or change them. There is no parliamentary mechanism to force an agreement on future parliaments. FFS. Make one. This is why we don't have a written constitution, only practice etc. To allow flexibility in unknown circumstances. This was at the very heart of a question session just yesterday in a select committee discussing the supreme court decision on prorogation. Putting the legal issue to one side, it was asked of the legal experts that formed the panel to be questioned, would it be better to have a written constitution, and the answer was no, as it potentially binds when a situation of unforseen nature becomes suddenly relevant and pressing. The expert said flexibility was more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: FFS. Make one. This is why we don't have a written constitution, only practice etc. To allow flexibility in unknown circumstances. This was at the very heart of a question session just yesterday in a select committee discussing the supreme court decision on prorogation. Putting the legal issue to one side, it was asked of the legal experts that formed the panel to be questioned, would it be better to have a written constitution, and the answer was no, as it potentially binds when a situation of unforseen nature becomes suddenly relevant and pressing. The expert said flexibility was more appropriate. Its dangerous though - lets imagine for example had such a mechanism been available and Blair used his huge majority to put a binding law in place that Britain could never under any circumstances leave or seek to leave the EU. That is why such a mechanism doesn't exist. And its very possible such a mechanism would at some point be abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said: Its dangerous though - lets imagine for example had such a mechanism been available and Blair used his huge majority to put a binding law in place that Britain could never under any circumstances leave or seek to leave the EU. That is why such a mechanism doesn't exist. And its very possible such a mechanism would at some point be abused. Read what I posted above fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, boltondiver said: Weren’t a number of the protesters seen in McDonalds? Probably just using the loo Yes - this is definitely what we should all be focussed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, kent_white said: Yes - this is definitely what we should all be focussed on. If you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, boltondiver said: If you want I'll chalk you down to part of the problem rather than part of the solution if that's as far as your imagination can extend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazBob Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, boltondiver said: Weren’t a number of the protesters seen in McDonalds? Probably just using the loo Commonly known as going for a McShit. If challenged by staff and you say you're eating there too then it becomes a McShit with lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, kent_white said: I'll chalk you down to part of the problem rather than part of the solution if that's as far as your imagination can extend. Cheeky sod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 So apart from contradicting what they say, disrupting 1000s going about their everyday life, costing the tax payer 10s of millions......what have they achieved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, royal white said: So apart from contradicting what they say, disrupting 1000s going about their everyday life, costing the tax payer 10s of millions......what have they achieved? They've forced the government to declare a 'climate emergency' - forced the issue into the public's psyche - made climate change a priority news agenda - made people like me question my lifestyle and what I can do to contribute - made people on football forums talk seriously about the issue (well some of us). I'd say that's pretty good going. Edited October 9, 2019 by kent_white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, kent_white said: They've forced the government to declare a 'climate emergency' - forced the issue into the public's psyche - made climate change a priority news agenda - made people like me question my lifestyle and what I can do to contribute - made people on football forums talk seriously about the issue (well some of us). I'd say that's pretty good going. I’m pretty sure the climate emergency was declared before these recent demos. Climate change has been talked about for years. Has it really taken some unwashed hypocrites, dancing about like brain dead fools in London to question your lifestyle? People talk about anything on these forums, WW is probably one of the best examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, royal white said: I’m pretty sure the climate emergency was declared before these recent demos. Climate change has been talked about for years. Has it really taken some unwashed hypocrites, dancing about like brain dead fools in London to question your lifestyle? People talk about anything on these forums, WW is probably one of the best examples. It does seem to have taken that - because before this it wasn't getting the attention it requires. This is a huge crisis - and we have to do everything we possibly can to solve this. And governments, including ours are not currently doing so. Perhaps the conversation should be focussed on the massive disaster we're bringing on ourselves that will occur potentially before some of us have passed away. Why isn't that the focus here rather than a few days disruption or the queues for Mcdonalds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, royal white said: I’m pretty sure the climate emergency was declared before these recent demos. Climate change has been talked about for years. Has it really taken some unwashed hypocrites, dancing about like brain dead fools in London to question your lifestyle? People talk about anything on these forums, WW is probably one of the best examples. I think the way you talk about people is really shitty. And I'd question who's brain dead - the folk trying to do something about climate change in London - or the people sat behind a keyboard moaning about it. In answer to your question - I have questioned my environmental impact before - but XR have forced me to think about it again. And the Government declared a climate emergency a few months back following the first round of XR demo's where the declaration was one of their demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted October 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 hours ago, bolty58 said: Don't know why you even bother engaging with that moron. Had I been supportive of the protesting wankers, he would have been on here taking the opposite stance. Is his name Corbyn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, kent_white said: I think the way you talk about people is really shitty. And I'd question who's brain dead - the folk trying to do something about climate change in London - or the people sat behind a keyboard moaning about it. In answer to your question - I have questioned my environmental impact before - but XR have forced me to think about it again. And the Government declared a climate emergency a few months back following the first round of XR demo's where the declaration was one of their demands. They do appear unwashed, they are hypocrites, and they have been dancing around like brain dead fools. If them words offend you then I’m deeply sorry. The truth has that effect on some people. But again how is dancing about like a brain dead fool, living in tents which have diesel generators whilst eating a Mcdonalds. doing anyhing? How have them bringing disruption to the city made you think again? Surely you had some idea about climate change? Maybe instead of being behind a keyboard moaning about It you could have used the keyboard to do some research 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 9, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, kent_white said: I'll chalk you down to part of the problem rather than part of the solution if that's as far as your imagination can extend. 19 minutes ago, kent_white said: I think the way you talk about people is really shitty. And I'd question who's brain dead - the folk trying to do something about climate change in London - or the people sat behind a keyboard moaning about it. In answer to your question - I have questioned my environmental impact before - but XR have forced me to think about it again. And the Government declared a climate emergency a few months back following the first round of XR demo's where the declaration was one of their demands. Hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Hmmm He does seem to fit the hypocrisy description 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Hmmm Wash my mouth out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, royal white said: They do appear unwashed, they are hypocrites, and they have been dancing around like brain dead fools. If them words offend you then I’m deeply sorry. The truth has that effect on some people. But again how is dancing about like a brain dead fool, living in tents which have diesel generators whilst eating a Mcdonalds. doing anyhing? How have them bringing disruption to the city made you think again? Surely you had some idea about climate change? Maybe instead of being behind a keyboard moaning about It you could have used the keyboard to do some research 🤔 You're trolling - and I'm not biting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 It’s not trolling. If the questions are to difficult just say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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