Have we decided who we are voting for?

Or can't be arsed?

A low turnout in locals is nothing new, don't read anything into that.

And yes you are right it is a 'protest' vote. Its just a draft, illogical way to do it.

Just read the Tories don't run a single council in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

 

That fucknosed bag of shit Johnson says this “message from voters” is that they want him to get on with the job.

Its not though.

The message is “fuck off”

Hes in charge. It’s pathetic.

2 hours ago, Spider said:

That fucknosed bag of shit Johnson says this “message from voters” is that they want him to get on with the job.

Its not though.

The message is “fuck off”

Hes in charge. It’s pathetic.

LETS MOVE ON 

3 hours ago, Spider said:

That fucknosed bag of shit Johnson says this “message from voters” is that they want him to get on with the job.

Its not though.

The message is “fuck off”

Hes in charge. It’s pathetic.

What should he say?

If he's not for resigning, then he's not going to keep apologising etc etc.

Especially with St. Armer now angling for a fpn.

Given some of the predictions were suggesting an even bigger loss of seats, and relatively modest gains by labour, I reckon he'll be quietly relieved.

Looking wider afield to Mick's point: yes they don't do well locally outside England, but the increase in nationalism north of the border is keeping Labour well down. NI has its own parties, and Wales does well with independents.

There will be some in the upper echelons who will be happy to have nicola doing her thing- performing badly on the ground but keeping her support by sabre rattling- as it makes it more difficult for Labour to win an election.

Like a game of chess.

It's always been a game of chess.

That's why its endlessly fascinating 

Labour lost its leader of the council round here. Second one to go in two years. Beaten by a Tory and three more independents voted in

I’m with @Not in Crawleyhere. This is local stuff. Folk voting on local issues and councillors. Come GE Rayner will cruise it once again. Let’s see if the promised potholes will be filled in, the pedestrian crossings erected and the speed bumps built. It’s what the local elections are for, not whether Johnson or Starmer had an illegal beer

8 hours ago, MancWanderer said:

Labour lost its leader of the council round here. Second one to go in two years. Beaten by a Tory and three more independents voted in

I’m with @Not in Crawleyhere. This is local stuff. Folk voting on local issues and councillors. Come GE Rayner will cruise it once again. Let’s see if the promised potholes will be filled in, the pedestrian crossings erected and the speed bumps built. It’s what the local elections are for, not whether Johnson or Starmer had an illegal beer

Only in part.

Local elections, especially mid term are notorious for giving the incumbent government a bloody nose. A lot of folk are fairly indifferent to local issues, and the turn out illustrates this.

As for Rayner; beergate isn't going away, and should she suffer at the end of it, then her reported interest in succeeding StArmer could be seriously hampered.

Should still retain her seat, with career progression damaged.

Has Starmer lied to Parliament?

7 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Only in part.

Local elections, especially mid term are notorious for giving the incumbent government a bloody nose. A lot of folk are fairly indifferent to local issues, and the turn out illustrates this.

As for Rayner; beergate isn't going away, and should she suffer at the end of it, then her reported interest in succeeding StArmer could be seriously hampered.

Should still retain her seat, with career progression damaged.

Its only in part because folk don't get involved in their local issues, or even realise this is all down to your councillors - also its always a stupidly low turnout. But then again, if this had been the nationals, Johnson would have been booted out and Starmer would be PM in a coalition. I'm facinated about the shift in the South away from the Conservatives. It's like the world has turned upside down.

I've always been for teaching secondary school kids about the UK electoral system in PSE (I don't know if its done or not) its criminal that so many people have a very silm understanding of how it all works.

 

2 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

Its only in part because folk don't get involved in their local issues, or even realise this is all down to your councillors - also its always a stupidly low turnout. But then again, if this had been the nationals, Johnson would have been booted out and Starmer would be PM in a coalition. I'm facinated about the shift in the South away from the Conservatives. It's like the world has turned upside down.

I've always been for teaching secondary school kids about the UK electoral system in PSE (I don't know if its done or not) its criminal that so many people have a very silm understanding of how it all works.

 

You're right, folk don't get involved in local stuff.

They can't be arsed, but moan about those that can. Much of the voting goes along party lines- I've often thought that councillors shouldn't be party affiliated. 

It does no favours to councils as political battles can interfere with the work of officers and employees to the detriment of the people.

15 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You're right, folk don't get involved in local stuff.

They can't be arsed, but moan about those that can. Much of the voting goes along party lines- I've often thought that councillors shouldn't be party affiliated. 

It does no favours to councils as political battles can interfere with the work of officers and employees to the detriment of the people.

Yes quite - its always why we're seeing more upswing for independants that do stand on a local issues platform.

There was a great quote from someone in Sunderland this week, 'I'm sick of the Tories down there, and I'm sick of Labour up here. I don't know why I'm bothering.'

There was some interesting commentary though about the thing that does worry political observers is the fragmentation of the UK's politics, not so much in terms on going from a two party system but that people just delve into their own chambers to hear what they want to, which allows misinformation and politicans to make gains in a way that wasn't previously possible or ethical.

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

Yes quite - its always why we're seeing more upswing for independants that do stand on a local issues platform.

There was a great quote from someone in Sunderland this week, 'I'm sick of the Tories down there, and I'm sick of Labour up here. I don't know why I'm bothering.'

There was some interesting commentary though about the thing that does worry political observers is the fragmentation of the UK's politics, not so much in terms on going from a two party system but that people just delve into their own chambers to hear what they want to, which allows misinformation and politicans to make gains in a way that wasn't previously possible or ethical.

To an extent that was ukip. Predominantly single issue party, that succeeded in influencing main stream parties. 

Such groups do become a temporary irritant, but they will disappear once they've succeeded or been shown to be irrelevant. 

That's why parliament remains largely free from independents, and has members of functioning parties.

Can work at a local level though, as someone can achieve beneficial things on the ground without necessarily being part of a political machine. Some understanding of dealing with such machines will clearly help though!

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

To an extent that was ukip. Predominantly single issue party, that succeeded in influencing main stream parties. 

Such groups do become a temporary irritant, but they will disappear once they've succeeded or been shown to be irrelevant. 

That's why parliament remains largely free from independents, and has members of functioning parties.

Can work at a local level though, as someone can achieve beneficial things on the ground without necessarily being part of a political machine. Some understanding of dealing with such machines will clearly help though!

That's my worry with independants. Its ok moaning about potholes and street lighting but then they see how much work has to be done, the way the council works and how long these things take - also without the support of a political party - I wonder how much they actually change.

3 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

That's my worry with independants. Its ok moaning about potholes and street lighting but then they see how much work has to be done, the way the council works and how long these things take - also without the support of a political party - I wonder how much they actually change.

A good point.

Speaking from my own, and my wife's experiences, less politics would make a huge difference. Folk without an agenda or a need to perform "for a party" would be a breath of fresh air for council officers.

That said, she's responded to councillors and politicians and they're not all bad.

Just the ones that stick their nose into things without understanding the detail but wanting immediate outcomes that spoil it.

I've had recent dealings with a councillor here (not my own) over an issue- nothing much but I shared some info which hopefully helped them deal with a situation. The individual was polite, respectful, appreciative and clearly a bit savvy. 

All you can ask for really.