Have we decided who we are voting for?

Or can't be arsed?

Just now, Escobarp said:

But and this is a genuine question. Would you not have voted non tory even if they’d just given us all a million quid and a shot on their wives? 

I have voted for The Tories in GEs more than any other party. It’s only the last 15 years that have sent me the opposite way.

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

I have voted for The Tories in GEs more than any other party. It’s only the last 15 years that have sent me the opposite way.

Thanks for answering. That does surprise me but only a wee bit 👍🏼

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

I did, because I'm voting for people who are doing a good job and have no control over the central party.

As I said before, I'm not in the game of ousting good people doing a good job.

Would you have voted for a hard working, effective Tory MP in your local seat if it had been a GE? 

4 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Would you have voted for a hard working, effective Tory MP in your local seat if it had been a GE? 

Erm....no, because that's not how local elections and GE work.

Fucking hell, its not difficult this stuff.

6 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Erm....no, because that's not how local elections and GE work.

Fucking hell, its not difficult this stuff.

Calm down young Boris.  It was a fair question given your opening paragraph. 

48 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

But and this is a genuine question. Would you not have voted non tory even if they’d just given us all a million quid and a shot on their wives? 

I've never votes for the fuckers.

Ever.

1 minute ago, mickbrown said:

I've never votes for the fuckers.

Ever.

Really? You do surprise me 

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Really? You do surprise me 

I don't like to disappoint.

 

3 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

I don't like to disappoint.

 

There’s a joke there but I’m too tired so shall leave it 😎

Local councillor elections don't offer too much weight to a potential GE to be fair.

That is what is shit about our GE system, you could have a really good local MP but an absolute bonfire of a government from the same party. So the great local guy is out on his ear due to uncle knobhead in Westminster.

Surely we need to change that or at least have a PR system like many other democracies?  We seem to have many more MPs per percentage of the population than comparable nations too.

3 hours ago, Farrelli said:

Yes I understand but the reality is that national issues are very relevant. As voters we have very few opportunities to send a message that resonates in Westminster.

I agree that if you are really pleased with your local council, and they happen to be another party, it does present a tricky decision. Personally the national situation and cost of living crisis was the biggest driver to vote non-Tory.

If you vote on national issues at a local council level, then I'm afraid that fundamentally misunderstands how our system works.

I agree, it was the biggest driver for people not voting for the Conservatives, my point is, it's not worth the cross in the box to get decent people out of their job because people don't understand what it means to elect councillors.

Am I happy it makes Johnson look like a failure again? Yes. Am I going to ruin a great local council that's doing good work with Conservatives and the Lib Dems. No.

1 hour ago, Winchester White said:

Local councillor elections don't offer too much weight to a potential GE to be fair.

That is what is shit about our GE system, you could have a really good local MP but an absolute bonfire of a government from the same party. So the great local guy is out on his ear due to uncle knobhead in Westminster.

Surely we need to change that or at least have a PR system like many other democracies?  We seem to have many more MPs per percentage of the population than comparable nations too.

I'm not going to bother posting anymore if folk don't read it 😉

PR won't come in in my lifetime, but I'll posit we'll have more coalition governments in the short term.

But its not set in stone, things will change and that's why it's so endlessly fascinating.

2 hours ago, Duck Egg said:

Calm down young Boris.  It was a fair question given your opening paragraph. 

I'm fucking zen.

It's just comparing councillors to voting MPs is like chalk and cheese, it's not the same thing. The sooner we can bend our heads round this then you won't ask the question.

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

I'm fucking zen.

It's just comparing councillors to voting MPs is like chalk and cheese, it's not the same thing. The sooner we can bend our heads round this then you won't ask the question.

Local MPs can do a grand job but have very little influence on the cabinet and day to day policies of their party.  They, like local councillors, will be judged by much of the electorate based on the leadership.  It's why several Tory leaders of councils have blamed Boris for them losing their seats this week. 

3 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Local MPs can do a grand job but have very little influence on the cabinet and day to day policies of their party.  They, like local councillors, will be judged by much of the electorate based on the leadership.  It's why several Tory leaders of councils have blamed Boris for them losing their seats this week. 

OK, if you don't understand the way the British political system works, I can't be bothered walking you through it on a Friday night when I've got a busy weekend ahead.

You're going to have to figure this one out for yourself.

 

4 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

OK, if you don't understand the way the British political system works, I can't be bothered walking you through it on a Friday night when I've got a busy weekend ahead.

You're going to have to figure this one out for yourself.

 

That’s a very condescending reply to a perfectly reasonable point of view. 
your facts are correct obviously, but so is the point around why people vote the way they do and the thread is around discussing that . 

44 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

If you vote on national issues at a local council level, then I'm afraid that fundamentally misunderstands how our system works.

I agree, it was the biggest driver for people not voting for the Conservatives, my point is, it's not worth the cross in the box to get decent people out of their job because people don't understand what it means to elect councillors.

Am I happy it makes Johnson look like a failure again? Yes. Am I going to ruin a great local council that's doing good work with Conservatives and the Lib Dems. No.

I choose to use my vote how I see fit. The Tory councillors who were not re-elected can tell Tory HQ what they were actually hearing on the door step. It’s already happened here so the message should be getting through.

49 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Local MPs can do a grand job but have very little influence on the cabinet and day to day policies of their party.  They, like local councillors, will be judged by much of the electorate based on the leadership.  It's why several Tory leaders of councils have blamed Boris for them losing their seats this week. 

Spot on. I told my local Tory councillor exactly why I could not support her and told her to send that message to her party.

1 hour ago, fatolive said:

That’s a very condescending reply to a perfectly reasonable point of view. 
your facts are correct obviously, but so is the point around why people vote the way they do and the thread is around discussing that . 

That's the problem right there, people make choices based on national politics at a local level.

If you think condescension is just facts I can't help it if you decide its emotional. 

The best thing about democracy is we all get a vote, mine is not any more important than anyone else's.

 

42 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Spot on. I told my local Tory councillor exactly why I could not support her and told her to send that message to her party.

Fair enough, but don't think it'll matter I  the GE.

My father was a local counciler in the 70s for Farnworth. He resigned halfway through his second term due to the overtaking of the Labour Party of the Unions. 

The BEN at the time said if you voted my Dad in you'd  be getting a 'red under the bed' as he spent time in Cuba.

He subsequently headed up the first school away from LA control.

Moral.of the story, don't pick party like a football club, and politically what is right at some points, at some time, needs shifting.

And he voted Lib Dem in Halliwell, because they do a good job. He'll always vote tory at the national level

He's not alone in feeling like that.

To much binery thinking on the local level.

@Spiderhas it right. You are voting for street lamps, school crossings and that sort of stuff.

If you think the local elections are a protest votes, either you don't understand what ocal elections are about or you are comfortable enough not to give a stuff.

41 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

That's the problem right there, people make choices based on national politics at a local level.

If you think condescension is just facts I can't help it if you decide its emotional. 

The best thing about democracy is we all get a vote, mine is not any more important than anyone else's.

 

Nah mate, it’s the “ if you don’t understand “ bollox 

 

11 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Nah mate, it’s the “ if you don’t understand “ bollox 

 

Well, it gets boring repeating yourself.

6 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

And he voted Lib Dem in Halliwell, because they do a good job. He'll always vote tory at the national level

He's not alone in feeling like that.

To much binery thinking on the local level.

@Spiderhas it right. You are voting for street lamps, school crossings and that sort of stuff.

If you think the local elections are a protest votes, either you don't understand what ocal elections are about or you are comfortable enough not to give a stuff.

If someone votes for a party in a local election because they do not like what the party is doing at a national level it is a protest vote. Do the local councillors have any influence at a national level ? Of course not. But if millions of people stop voting for a party at a local level that can and does have an impact at national level. 
The impact of good or bad individual councillors will be minimal across the country at an aggregate level in the sense that whatever party there will good and bad across the board. The protest vote at local level might not be logical in terms of getting the 24 bus to run on time but if the overall % voting for a party drops off the cliff it does make sense. 
Add in the impact on the local activists, hard working Tory councillor who loses their seat, are they going to go out and give 100% to get Boris another term ? Some will, maybe most, but if a few think fuck it, it has an impact. 
The different trends across the country also tell a story, if Tory support across the 'red wall' is holding up quite well, why is that ? Labour still failing to connect to their traditional base ? 
The low turnout maybe also implies people are just fucked off with the lot of them.

1 hour ago, Ani said:

If someone votes for a party in a local election because they do not like what the party is doing at a national level it is a protest vote. Do the local councillors have any influence at a national level ? Of course not. But if millions of people stop voting for a party at a local level that can and does have an impact at national level. 
The impact of good or bad individual councillors will be minimal across the country at an aggregate level in the sense that whatever party there will good and bad across the board. The protest vote at local level might not be logical in terms of getting the 24 bus to run on time but if the overall % voting for a party drops off the cliff it does make sense. 
Add in the impact on the local activists, hard working Tory councillor who loses their seat, are they going to go out and give 100% to get Boris another term ? Some will, maybe most, but if a few think fuck it, it has an impact. 
The different trends across the country also tell a story, if Tory support across the 'red wall' is holding up quite well, why is that ? Labour still failing to connect to their traditional base ? 
The low turnout maybe also implies people are just fucked off with the lot of them.

Your last sentence is exactly why I didn’t vote.