Besides the obvious (Cosgrove), the other Longstaff who has had the ACL injury? Worth a punt?

This exactly.  We have a decent base, it doesn't need a top to bottom clear out, we absolutely need the right players  adding to make us better, but the basics are covered.  As pitiful as Saturday was, we still finished 3rd and were one win off promotion.  It is crucial that we make the right additions though, no more passenger players with a good touch, but offer no fight.  We need a proper midfield thug 

1 hour ago, woolli said:

13 of that lot where involved in failing to get us promotion, 11 of them the previous season,  So, the " decent  base" as failed, for whatever reason. Hopefully when a new manager comes in he can get the best out of them, and be able to change tactics to suit.

Half of them were out injured for significant periods though.

29 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Half of them were out injured for significant periods though.

As  was half of Derbys and Portsmouth were! Those two teams didnt even make the paly offs the previously season, thats what you call progress!

1 hour ago, desperado said:

But the counter argument to that is, they are the only squad in that league who have progressively gone from 9th, to 5th, to 3rd, so are arguably the squad best set, with a foundation, to build on that to get promotion.

That’s why we’ll be in the top two or three in the betting.

EVERY other team is an unknown guess as to whether they have the players (or will buy the players) to be up there. 

We don’t know that the Huddersfield and Birmingham players can hack it in L1 or they’ll stay there.

We don’t know if Parky is going to buy the right payers with his Netflix money .

We do know that our squad of players can play at the top end of this division. 

My counter argument D. Pompey and Derby didnt even reach the play off the previous season, but went up. Surely that much better progression  than us.! Quite correct about the other teams, but that is all just pure speculation, mine are facts. They didnt get us up this season ,what makes you think they same core will get us up next season, in a more difficult league on paper?

2 hours ago, woolli said:

13 of that lot where involved in failing to get us promotion, 11 of them the previous season,  So, the " decent  base" as failed, for whatever reason. Hopefully when a new manager comes in he can get the best out of them, and be able to change tactics to suit.

One could argue that with a handful of decent acquisitions, we could go one step further.

We've no divine right to promotion, the lower leagues can be hard for 'bigger' clubs to succeed. Look at Sheffield Wednesday & Sunderland as just two examples.

2 minutes ago, Traf said:

One could argue that with a handful of decent acquisitions, we could go one step further.

We've no divine right to promotion, the lower leagues can be hard for 'bigger' clubs to succeed. Look at Sheffield Wednesday & Sunderland as just two examples.

We all hope so, but by the same token, we may not?, this is the same for all clubs. With regards to SW, and Sunderland, it took them 2 an 4 seasons to get out of this league, so not as long as alot of people make out. Add Derby to that who took 2 years, and Ipswich 4. 

Just now, woolli said:

We all hope so, but by the same token, we may not?, this is the same for all clubs. With regards to SW, and Sunderland, it took them 2 an 4 seasons to get out of this league, so not as long as alot of people make out. Add Derby to that who took 2 years, and Ipswich 4. 

So, by that chalk, a fourth season in L1 is neither unusual nor a disaster.

2 minutes ago, woolli said:

We all hope so, but by the same token, we may not?, this is the same for all clubs. With regards to SW, and Sunderland, it took them 2 an 4 seasons to get out of this league, so not as long as alot of people make out. Add Derby to that who took 2 years, and Ipswich 4. 

Can go the other way too. 

Portsmouth have spent 12 years outside the Championship including 4 in league 2. Sheffield United spent 6 seasons at this level. 

8 minutes ago, Traf said:

So, by that chalk, a fourth season in L1 is neither unusual nor a disaster.

Correct, but hopefully with a new manager, who can actually change things in game time. The vote for Evatt to go or stay on here is roughly half and half, if this is a general indication, the Toughsheet will be toxic from the start.

24 minutes ago, woolli said:

My counter argument D. Pompey and Derby didnt even reach the play off the previous season, but went up. Surely that much better progression  than us.! Quite correct about the other teams, but that is all just pure speculation, mine are facts. They didnt get us up this season ,what makes you think they same core will get us up next season, in a more difficult league on paper?

It’s a good debate pal which will no doubt rumble till August and beyond.

I’m not disputing your claims being factual, I agree. Pompey and Derby overtook us. We didn’t go up when arguably this group could/should have done.

But I also think my claims are factual 9/5/3 - there’s no team with a better progressive L1 record in the last 3 years that we’ll be up against. And a large part of that squad have been part of that progressive journey - they know what being top of that league both is, and more importantly, what it should be and where the deficiencies are to be top 2 rather than top 6.

Easier said than done, but I maintain Evatt or a new man, has the basis of a good L1 squad there. The bigger question is whether we’ll find that necessary addition through personnel/tactics/approach/mentality to continue the progression.

17 minutes ago, woolli said:

The vote for Evatt to go or stay on here is roughly half and half

Brexit went well 😉

4 minutes ago, desperado said:

It’s a good debate pal which will no doubt rumble till August and beyond.

I’m not disputing your claims being factual, I agree. Pompey and Derby overtook us. We didn’t go up when arguably this group could/should have done.

But I also think my claims are factual 9/5/3 - there’s no team with a better progressive L1 record in the last 3 years that we’ll be up against. And a large part of that squad have been part of that progressive journey - they know what being top of that league both is, and more importantly, what it should be and where the deficiencies are to be top 2 rather than top 6.

Easier said than done, but I maintain Evatt or a new man, has the basis of a good L1 squad there. The bigger question is whether we’ll find that necessary addition through personnel/tactics/approach/mentality to continue the progression.

What will be will be pal, but im just still so pissed off what happened on Saturday, beaten by a team who we had beaten very comfortably 5-0, less than two months ago, to a guy who as been in management only 7 months, and the only match in 61 games which we havent had a shot on target! Something needs to change.

 

1 minute ago, Traf said:

Brexit went well 😉

Your an Evatt outer Traf, why do you want to argue? Brexit! whats that?

2 minutes ago, woolli said:

What will be will be pal, but im just still so pissed off what happened on Saturday, beaten by a team who we had beaten very comfortably 5-0, less than two months ago, to a guy who as been in management only 7 months, and the only match in 61 games which we havent had a shot on target! Something needs to change.

 

Can’t disagree mate.

I’m just still unsure (and the poll reflects my opinion) whether Evatt can sort this out and he’s the right man. And that’s a big shift from me, because as you know I’ve been a big advocate of him, as prior to Oxford I was firmly in the keep him camp.

I just hope that FV’s decisions are backed by the fans and we can start the season believing we can make a challenge for the top 2. Turning toxic on owners and manager is never a pleasurable experience.

5 minutes ago, desperado said:

Can’t disagree mate.

I’m just still unsure (and the poll reflects my opinion) whether Evatt can sort this out and he’s the right man. And that’s a big shift from me, because as you know I’ve been a big advocate of him, as prior to Oxford I was firmly in the keep him camp.

I just hope that FV’s decisions are backed by the fans and we can start the season believing we can make a challenge for the top 2. Turning toxic on owners and manager is never a pleasurable experience.

Yep I mentioned about it potentially going toxic the other day, now I’m not keen on IE one bit but we don’t want any nastiness. If he remains he’s really got to pull a good start off 

16 minutes ago, woolli said:

Your an Evatt outer Traf

I'm not.

15 minutes ago, desperado said:

Can’t disagree mate.

I’m just still unsure (and the poll reflects my opinion) whether Evatt can sort this out and he’s the right man. And that’s a big shift from me, because as you know I’ve been a big advocate of him, as prior to Oxford I was firmly in the keep him camp.

I just hope that FV’s decisions are backed by the fans and we can start the season believing we can make a challenge for the top 2. Turning toxic on owners and manager is never a pleasurable experience.

it is up to the owners to avoid a toxic environment. nobody gets pissed off winning. another season of nearly men with 75% of the ball isn't going to go down well. there must be someone who can advise him / guide him on where he needs to learn. Can we not get pep on as a consultant.

"listen mr turkey teeth gambling addict. i am one of the greatest managers ever and even i have to change and adapt. why do you think you are too good to evolve / change"

12 minutes ago, Traf said:

I'm not.

Strange? I do recall you saying it will be a failure if we dont get promoted, one way or the other. A failure but lets keep him? Or have you had a change of heart?

33 minutes ago, woolli said:

Strange? I do recall you saying it will be a failure if we dont get promoted, one way or the other. A failure but lets keep him? Or have you had a change of heart?

Did he fail to meet his goal last season of promotion? Yes. Doe he have enough credit to have 1 lost shot next season?  YEs for me again.

Next season would be his last chance to get us up to L1. When he joined in 2020, him and FV had a 5 year plan to get us into the Championship. If he can be brave enough to admit that his preferred style has to give way sometimes, I fully believe he can do it next year. Will he? Time will tell.

46 minutes ago, BeeversLeftPeg said:

Did he fail to meet his goal last season of promotion? Yes. Doe he have enough credit to have 1 lost shot next season?  YEs for me again.

Next season would be his last chance to get us up to L1. When he joined in 2020, him and FV had a 5 year plan to get us into the Championship. If he can be brave enough to admit that his preferred style has to give way sometimes, I fully believe he can do it next year. Will he? Time will tell.

I think your quote , time will tell is correct. Im  not sure he will ever say " im to blame!"  Dont get me wrong, hes done well, but, by the same token hes had a big budget for league 1 level. Oxford spent the grand total of 500,000 all season! It now depends on FV. Do  they give him more money to spend?, Can they trust him? Its a very difficult decision for all involved.

Edited May 23, 20242 yr by woolli
more info

1 hour ago, woolli said:

Strange? I do recall you saying it will be a failure if we dont get promoted, one way or the other. A failure but lets keep him? Or have you had a change of heart?

No change of heart, I've never been firmly anti-Evatt. 
I think he failed to hit his target, but took us to within one result of bring successful. Fine lines and all that.

I'd just be concerned about throwing the baby out with the bath water here, as I'm not convinced it's all his fault.

3 minutes ago, Traf said:

No change of heart, I've never been firmly anti-Evatt. 
I think he failed to hit his target, but took us to within one result of bring successful. Fine lines and all that.

I'd just be concerned about throwing the baby out with the bath water here, as I'm not convinced it's all his fault.

...and a total rebuild and change could set us back even further.

Sometimes it's better the devil you know.

Just now, gonzo said:

...and a total rebuild and change could set us back even further.

Sometimes it's better the devil you know.

...which is where I'm at.

1 hour ago, woolli said:

Strange? I do recall you saying it will be a failure if we dont get promoted, one way or the other. A failure but lets keep him? Or have you had a change of heart?

It's a failure not getting promoted. Especially with the positions we've held this season.

Saturday was a shameful embarrassment and should not be forgotten in a hurry and nobody should get a free pass.

However thinking this doesn't automatically mean you want heads to roll and have a total change of management.

3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

...and a total rebuild and change could set us back even further.

Sometimes it's better the devil you know.

I here what you are saying, theres no right or wrong, but  both Pompey and Oxford have changed their manager in the last  12/18 months, they are both in the Championship now.