no balls Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 wasn't the last one, was he? No silly, that was that Jock lad who lived with Frank Gallagher!
macbeth Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 also, who are you if you've no interest in us qualifications? no qualifications, just done it for 5 Premier League, 4 other English sides, and 10 sides in Scotland. Bolton were suggested to me from a pal (who supports Norwich) who questioned why I had questioned Coyle joining Bolton. He argued that you had a far bigger set up/budget than Burnley. I didn't know the facts so I looked them up. I haven't told him that Norwich had biiger gate receipts in 2008 than Bolton, I don't want him to think he supports a big club
macbeth Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 Dear Prince of Cumberland,I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve then if you have no interest in football. Not being funny like, of course. plenty interest in football, just not the nuances of the ownership of every club. Do you know who owns Stoke or Hull ? No, me either
Casino Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) peter coates at stoke (bet 365) thowt that was common knowledge anyway, at least you know now why it was easy for coyle to join us Edited January 13, 2010 by Casino
macbeth Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 stick around and in a week or so, you'll probably have a cracking little site seeing as you've done a few of these, care to direct the site users to some of the others? The home site is finances site The golden football logo takes you back to that site after you've been to the other teams.
only1swanny Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 plenty interest in football, just not the nuances of the ownership of every club. Do you know who owns Stoke or Hull ? No, me either stoke is Peter Cpoates of bet 365 Hull is Paul duffen who is head of a consortium..
no balls Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 plenty interest in football, just not the nuances of the ownership of every club. Do you know who owns Stoke or Hull ? No, me either Peter Coates & Adam Pearson I think from watching tv & remembering stuff. Or maybe I'm just an anorak.
only1swanny Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Peter Coates & Adam Pearson I think from watching tv & remembering stuff. Or maybe I'm just an anorak. Pretty sure Pearson gave up about 2 years ago.. might be wrong though..
Casino Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 stoke is Peter Cpoates of bet 365Hull is Paul duffen who is head of a consortium.. actually, im not sure about hull duffen is no longer chairman pearson is back ownershiop aint clear in five minutes googling
no balls Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Pretty sure Pearson gave up about 2 years ago.. might be wrong though.. Duffen's gone & Pearson's back. I'm sure you're wrong.
Gonk Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Okay I have no interest at all in Bolton, not the slightest. I have no more idea of who the ultimate owner of Bolton is than I do who the ultimate owner of Coventry or Norwich or Portsmouth is, it was just the next team on the list of those to look at. That Mr Davies is famous in BL6 doesn't mean everyone knows who he is. I'm not surprised that you'd heard of him, he's not like that big fat jumped up market trader in geordieland, he shuns publicity. This is where he made his wonga. Eddies Millions Just about every 'new style' upright electric kettle on the planet has a flat plate element at the bottom. His company invented the flat plate element. They took out worldwide patents on the technology, and fllowed that with strict enforcement / licensing.
macbeth Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 If you asked fans of other clubs who owned Bolton the majority would say Gartside. He is the (unacceptable) face of Bolton
mixup Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Well done Macbeth. Some excellent analysis in your report. One thing worth remembering is that values are variable and uncertain but costs have to be paid. The clubs total debt is a lot more than the net debt most commentators have focussed on. It is also worth noting that the club's staff costs went up from ?31 million in 2007 to ?41 million in 2009 whilst the capital cost of players contracts increased from ?24 million to ?54 million (the latter including signings in the summer of 2009). Gary Megson could claim that he helped the club maintain Premiership status but any claim that he left the club in an improved financial position is not borne out by the worrying numbers.
macbeth Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 I'm not surprised that you'd heard of him, he's not like that big fat jumped up market trader in geordieland, he shuns publicity. This is where he made his wonga. Eddies Millions Just about every 'new style' upright electric kettle on the planet has a flat plate element at the bottom. His company invented the flat plate element. They took out worldwide patents on the technology, and fllowed that with strict enforcement / licensing. not sure I've ever seen Ashley being interviewed, or heard him speak at all. He geos to games, to endure the abuse, but not sure he looks for fame. When he first took over at Newcastle there were no photos of him to be had. Sadly they did materialise later
Guest bwfcdan Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 If you asked fans of other clubs who owned Bolton the majority would say Gartside. He is the (unacceptable) face of Bolton Why unacceptable?
macbeth Posted January 13, 2010 Author Posted January 13, 2010 Why unacceptable? his general good looks
Guest bwfcdan Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 his general good looks Oh right... So what owners do you think are lookers then?
no balls Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Oh right... So what owners do you think are lookers then? Don't tell me you wouldn't!
Guest bwfcdan Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 He's got to be related to Jimmy Bullard....
Carlos Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 Hows about that tranny that took over Aldershot?
Sluffy Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 actually, im not sure about hull duffen is no longer chairman pearson is back ownershiop aint clear in five minutes googling Hull is owned by 'Tigers Holding Limited' the man who controls that is Russell Bartlett. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/no...-hull-city-cash
zurichwhite Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 Just to put my simple mind straight... You said our total net liabilities are 31m and total assets are around 75m. This means our total debt is 106m. Is 106m correct because in another graph, you say B.Leisure has handed out 62m in loans. Where does the remaining 42m (106-62) in debts come from? The interest payments of 4.4m on 106m don't stack up, surely, when you say the interest payments on most of the loans are high and we know ED charges 10% on some of the loans? Also if net debt is 72m, and total debts are 106m, then we have 34m of liquid assets? If we assume liquid assets of football clubs are potential transfer fees, the book value of players is only 25m so I'm wondering how the figures stack up Cheers
worthy4england Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 Okay I have no interest at all in Bolton, not the slightest. I have no more idea of who the ultimate owner of Bolton is than I do who the ultimate owner of Coventry or Norwich or Portsmouth is, it was just the next team on the list of those to look at. That Mr Davies is famous in BL6 doesn't mean everyone knows who he is. You always need to be wary of stating a transfer fee, what is in the press isn't always what is the actual figure. The www.soccerbase.com site, ( Bolton transfers ) usually very reliable, has Cohen 650k, Steinsson 3.5m, Taylor 3.5m, Muamba 5m, Cahill 5m and Elmander 10m, a grand total of 27.7m spent in the 2007-2008 financial year. This was where I got the 10m figure from. Anyone care to tell me what the numbers should be, or guess at what the club said it was? From the Elmander comment it seems that the total should be at least 1.8m lower then the soccerbase figure. I'll change the explanation of amortisation as it will appease the pedants, I have no desire to try and mislead anyone. I'll put in 8m so it doesn't sound like it is being exaggerated, either way Davies is listed in the 2008 and 2009 accounts as being owed 2.3m by the club "in respect of player success fees", which would stack up with the comments above. This is already in place though and the suggestion is that the player(s) has hit what ever target was set for the extra fee to kick in. I am always aware that it is easy to make mistakes when I do a team that is not my own, as I don't have "inside" knowledge. I always bounce off a message board so that people can point out any blatant errors, or minor typos. I'd like to thank you all for your friendly, helpful approach, it has been an eye-opener. It is indeed easy to make mistakes. You're use of Soccerbase is one such. It reports a headline figure that allegedly is the transfer fee without taking into consideration what proportion or that fee is amortised (doesn't go out of the Club in the same Accounting period) and sits within intangible fixed assets. If you want to find the Capital outlay in any particular year on players, you need to look at Note 28 (usually somewhere round there) to track the actual cash heading out of the Club on player purchase - don't forget to look at the cash inflows too, to ensure you have some sort of balanced picture. You can't just use the football stadium as an asset of the football club as the hotel is part of the Group's assets and the Accounts are prepared at that level. The actual cashflow figure for the 2007/8 FY was +?2.49m There was ?12.38m in cash outlay and ?14.87m in income (on player dealings). This is because when a player is sold, the amount sitting in the intangible fixed assets comes off the books too (as the Club no longer has to pay those sums). So yes, your figure of minus ?10m is incorrect for the 08 FY. The figure for the 07 FY was (net) minus ?10m or so, when we purchased Anelka, Miete etc. If I was you, I'd probably go read some books on Accounting, then come back and have another go.
macbeth Posted January 14, 2010 Author Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) It is indeed easy to make mistakes. You're use of Soccerbase is one such. It reports a headline figure that allegedly is the transfer fee without taking into consideration what proportion or that fee is amortised (doesn't go out of the Club in the same Accounting period) and sits within intangible fixed assets. If you want to find the Capital outlay in any particular year on players, you need to look at Note 28 (usually somewhere round there) to track the actual cash heading out of the Club on player purchase - don't forget to look at the cash inflows too, to ensure you have some sort of balanced picture. You can't just use the football stadium as an asset of the football club as the hotel is part of the Group's assets and the Accounts are prepared at that level. The actual cashflow figure for the 2007/8 FY was +?2.49m There was ?12.38m in cash outlay and ?14.87m in income (on player dealings). This is because when a player is sold, the amount sitting in the intangible fixed assets comes off the books too (as the Club no longer has to pay those sums). So yes, your figure of minus ?10m is incorrect for the 08 FY. The figure for the 07 FY was (net) minus ?10m or so, when we purchased Anelka, Miete etc. If I was you, I'd probably go read some books on Accounting, then come back and have another go. I have used the "acquisitions" figure from note 11, intangible fixed assets. This is the amount the club have spent on new transfers. I completely accept that their are corresponding disposals, and profits made on sales. The "acquisitions" shows the amount the club have backed their manager in his choices for that year. The Liverpool figures, for example, show that in 2007 and 2008 Rafa spent ?70m each year on new players. Yes he sold to finance that but he brought into the club ?140m worth of new talent. What you have done is highlight that I missed a page off the site. I have a page like this Liverpool transfers which I have just missed off the Bolton one altogether. It is there now Edited January 14, 2010 by macbeth
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