Clegg Certainly play the "honesty is the best policy" card tonight.

 

I guess the big question is do voters believe him.

 

Could there be a major change on the horizon?

They even plan to abolish prison sentences of less than 6 months, to ease prison overcrowding - err how might that one work then Mr Clegg?

 

 

Jailbirds should pay back what has been spent on locking them up on release along the lines on the student loan.

They even plan to abolish prison sentences of less than 6 months, to ease prison overcrowding - err how might that one work then Mr Clegg?

If the LibDems ever got in power we'd be just just be another European state overseen by Brussells, whilst spending our hard earned Euros.

 

As long as those short term prison sentences are replaced with community punnishments and support with any underlying issues rather than a telling off and sending back out on to the streets to feed their addictions. i can't see why it won't work.

 

especially since most of the short term jail sentences are for 'minor' crimes carried out to feed a habit of one description or another.

There are some good points above, I am really undecided...

 

I disagree with a lot of Labour policies but i have seen my prosperity rise over the last 10 years.....

 

The tories cut in public spending could and most probably will affect my job...

 

The Lib Dems policies on European intergration, the Euro, immigration etc are a big no no for me...

 

I'm not sure what will convince me one way or the other..although i do like these suggestions...

 

Halt all immigration; deport criminal and illegal immigrants; offer legal immigrants financial incentives to return voluntarily to their countries of origin; give preference in the job market to "native Britons"; withdraw British troops from Iraq and Afghanistan; only commit British troops to conflicts which "directly affect" British interests; re-introduce corporal and capital punishment; withdraw from the EU

 

 

Not often me and thee agree but the bit in bold there is spot on.

 

The rest of it however.

As long as those short term prison sentences are replaced with community punnishments and support with any underlying issues rather than a telling off and sending back out on to the streets to feed their addictions. i can't see why it won't work.

 

especially since most of the short term jail sentences are for 'minor' crimes carried out to feed a habit of one description or another.

 

bollocks

 

chop 'em off

 

hands or bollocks, i'm not bothered

As long as those short term prison sentences are replaced with community punnishments and support with any underlying issues rather than a telling off and sending back out on to the streets to feed their addictions. i can't see why it won't work.

 

especially since most of the short term jail sentences are for 'minor' crimes carried out to feed a habit of one description or another.

 

 

You might want to look at a list of crimes which currently receive 6 months sentences before saying you want them walking free for what they've done.

 

 

Also, seems like a good time to deal with the liberal myth that prison doesn't work.

 

Britain has one of the lowest imprisonment rates in Europe, and one of the highest crime rates.

 

Hat tip to Ed West for the below -

 

The number of prisoners per recorded crime is, at 16.1 per 100,000 people, below that of Italy, at 16.6, France at 16.8, Portugal and Spain on 29.0 each and Ireland on 29.6.

 

All those countries ? not coincidentally ? have lower crime rates than England, which is below only Sweden in western Europe?s crime rate charts. Sweden also has ? not coincidentally ? the lowest level of imprisonment.

 

 

As for the person feeling their prosperity has risen in the last 10 years - firstly, the real growth experienced at the beginning of Labour's 13 years resulted from the previous 17 years of Tory government - compare the growth rate, unemployment rate and inflation rate in 1979 and 1997 (yes, imbetween there was some bloody unpleasant stuff, but people mustn't confuse the cure with the disease, even if the cure is painful).

 

Later rises in prosperity are illusory, resulting from a lovely big debt bubble which will, ironically enough in metaphor land, hold down your standard of living for at least 30 years, and most likely far more.

You might want to look at a list of crimes which currently receive 6 months sentences before saying you want them walking free for what they've done.

 

 

Also, seems like a good time to deal with the liberal myth that prison doesn't work.

 

Britain has one of the lowest imprisonment rates in Europe, and one of the highest crime rates.

Hat tip to Ed West for the below -

 

The number of prisoners per recorded crime is, at 16.1 per 100,000 people, below that of Italy, at 16.6, France at 16.8, Portugal and Spain on 29.0 each and Ireland on 29.6.

 

All those countries ? not coincidentally ? have lower crime rates than England, which is below only Sweden in western Europe?s crime rate charts. Sweden also has ? not coincidentally ? the lowest level of imprisonment.

 

 

As for the person feeling their prosperity has risen in the last 10 years - firstly, the real growth experienced at the beginning of Labour's 13 years resulted from the previous 17 years of Tory government - compare the growth rate, unemployment rate and inflation rate in 1979 and 1997 (yes, imbetween there was some bloody unpleasant stuff, but people mustn't confuse the cure with the disease, even if the cure is painful).

 

Later rises in prosperity are illusory, resulting from a lovely big debt bubble which will, ironically enough in metaphor land, hold down your standard of living for at least 30 years, and most likely far more.

 

On the other hand America still has capital punishment in some states and guess what, people still commit crimes.

 

 

Also, whilst I agree that some of the foundations of the economic growth we saw from 1997 were being built under the final term of Major (who in my humble opinion does not get enough credit from either his party or the general public for the job he did as PM), to claim that any growth seen with the first two terms of the Labour administration were all due to the previous 17 years (did you conveniently forget the previous recession?) are at best myopic, at worse, plain deluded.

 

Believe it or not but I'm not the Wolfie-clone that you may perceive, my wife is certainly a one nation conservative (although working for the DCMS I do believe that voting Labour might be the best self-preservation bet!) and we agree on many issues as I'm very much on the right of the Labour party. A topic we both reach a consensus on is that members of the conservative movement such as yourself actually make it more difficult for the party to make the significant inroads into the electorate which you need. I do not doubt your stats for one minute, but there is another side to the story which you seem disinclined to acknowledge and the high handed and superior manner in which you present your truth is generally unpalatable to many, who although speaking anecdotally and not from a socio-economic fact sheet,are giving a version of their reality. To dismiss it with one-sided growth percentage figures is, quite frankly, a poor show and proves that the figures you give do not outline the entire picture; as ultimately it is how people perceive the reality of their situation as to how they will cast their vote.

 

Maarsh, now seems like a good time to mention Disraeli.

so tory boy presents stats you don't dispute and all you can come back with is a critique of his delivery

 

how very nu labour

 

t'isn't all about style you know

so tory boy presents stats you don't dispute and all you can come back with is a critique of his delivery

 

how very nu labour

 

t'isn't all about style you know

 

 

Well done, now you've got it.

 

Sorry, that was a bit off hand, so here's some of more cut and pasted crime and punishment propaganda;

 

Overall crime is down by more than a third since 1997 - that?s 6 million fewer crimes each year. Almost 1 million fewer homes burgled; and almost 1 and a half million fewer violent crimes. The risk of being a victim of crime today is the lowest since the British Crime Survey began in 1981. Many people said it was inevitable that crime would rise in a recession ? as it did in the recessions of the 1980s and 90s ? but this time it has not.

 

See, anyone can do it, even dyslexic lefties like me. The above is all very true but that's not to say that there is a flip side to these figures and how they are measured.

Edited April 21, 201016 yr by Crawley

You might want to look at a list of crimes which currently receive 6 months sentences before saying you want them walking free for what they've done.

 

 

Also, seems like a good time to deal with the liberal myth that prison doesn't work.

 

Britain has one of the lowest imprisonment rates in Europe, and one of the highest crime rates.

 

Hat tip to Ed West for the below -

 

The number of prisoners per recorded crime is, at 16.1 per 100,000 people, below that of Italy, at 16.6, France at 16.8, Portugal and Spain on 29.0 each and Ireland on 29.6.

 

All those countries ? not coincidentally ? have lower crime rates than England, which is below only Sweden in western Europe?s crime rate charts. Sweden also has ? not coincidentally ? the lowest level of imprisonment.

 

 

As for the person feeling their prosperity has risen in the last 10 years - firstly, the real growth experienced at the beginning of Labour's 13 years resulted from the previous 17 years of Tory government - compare the growth rate, unemployment rate and inflation rate in 1979 and 1997 (yes, imbetween there was some bloody unpleasant stuff, but people mustn't confuse the cure with the disease, even if the cure is painful).

 

Later rises in prosperity are illusory, resulting from a lovely big debt bubble which will, ironically enough in metaphor land, hold down your standard of living for at least 30 years, and most likely far more.

 

I didn't say i wanted them walking free but if thats suits the tory propaganda peddling then carry on.

 

In an ideal world viewed in pure black and white criminals would be banged up for as long their crime deserved and only truly bad people would commit crimes. That isn't how the world works.

I didn't say i wanted them walking free but if thats suits the tory propaganda peddling then carry on.

 

In an ideal world viewed in pure black and white criminals would be banged up for as long their crime deserved and only truly bad people would commit crimes. That isn't how the world works.

 

well that aint liberal policy

Good stuff this. Dips me lid to both Maaarsh and Crawley on that score.

 

Obviously, I am more in step with Maaarshs opinions but that doesn't preclude me from complimenting my old nemesis from the theatre cleaning industry on his considered responses.

 

Now then, other than a protest vote against the duopoly, why would anyone waste a vote on centrists? The ultimate posturing and do fook all party. Just a wasted vote and God forbid you elect a hung parliament. Unless my memory is fooked, didn't we end up having to go cap in hand to the IMF last time this happened?

Good stuff this. Dips me lid to both Maaarsh and Crawley on that score.

 

Obviously, I am more in step with Maaarshs opinions but that doesn't preclude me from complimenting my old nemesis from the theatre cleaning industry on his considered responses.

 

Now then, other than a protest vote against the duopoly, why would anyone waste a vote on centrists? The ultimate posturing and do fook all party. Just a wasted vote and God forbid you elect a hung parliament. Unless my memory is fooked, didn't we end up having to go cap in hand to the IMF last time this happened?

 

Bolty not sure how clear the view is when you are upside down but the one fact that i imagine most people will agree on is that both of the major parties have swung to the centre in an attempt to win votes.

 

old fashioned principles that could be demonstrated by the likes of Kinnock and Foot on one side and Maggie and Heath on the other have been dropped in an attempt to be all things to all men. - If any of the parties could increase their standing in the polls by 5% by producing a suitable sound bite they would do it, and the other 2 would wish they had thought of it first - Not a question of policies or principles.

 

What is interesting is that this has allowed the BNP to generate support from the extremes by appealing to the right wing and at the same time the working class (not that they are mutually exclusive)and now the Liberals are fighting back for the centre so Labs and Cons are being squeezed.

 

As for Msaaarsh, i agree with a lot of Crawleys comments, I would be interested to know how old he is, mentioned studying for proffesional qualifications so guessing mid 20s, which means he has never really experienced a Tory Government. I was at Uni then in first jobs last time they were in power and they just never seemed to give a shit about the people who did not buy into the 'loadsamoney' culture that was promoted and encouraged by their policies.That is why I just do not trust them. Casino I have no stats to back any of this up, just my personal experience, beleifs and values.

 

You can produce stats to back up your arguement but is that the same as actually being part of something, a bit like judging a game of football or a player based purely on prozone stats.

 

Maaarsh this may seem like I am having a go at you, I am not just curius if your support of the Tories is based on experiencing a time they were in power? (If you now say you are 45 and retraining all the above is irrelevant, there are also other on here as old as me who have a totally different view of previous Tory governments)

Edited April 22, 201016 yr by Ani

Ani, forgetting all of the emotive 'us & them', 'rich v poor' etc. BS arguments, bring it down to brass tacks. What does Britain need more than anything at present? Sound and effective economic management. Certainly in my lifetime, there is only one party with an exemplary record in this area.

 

I just hope people actually consider this when they are placing their cross rather than vote for the red rosette 'cos me Dad did' or waste it on the 'achieve-fook-all' centrists.

some 'interesting' facts...

 

total spend ?620bn

 

social protection (Pensions, Benefits, etc) (?203bn)

health (?110bn)

education (?82bn)

interest (?31bn)

defence (?37bn)

parliment (?500m)

Edited April 22, 201016 yr by HomerJay

Anyone watch it tonight on SkyNews?

Anyone watch it tonight on SkyNews?

 

Me. Clegg did his dash in the first one. Brown has the air of dejection of a defeated man. Cameron did much better in this one.

Don't reckon much to any of them. Brown did better, but he's damaged goods, there isn't much substance to Clegg and Cameron's just shite, as vacuous a figure as has appeared in front line British politics.

 

Is this really the best our country can throw up?

It's a shit format for ADD Yank thickos.

Me. Clegg did his dash in the first one. Brown has the air of dejection of a defeated man. Cameron did much better in this one.

Brown is just desperate; how could anyone ever vote for him?

I'll give Clegg credit for the first one, his "performance" was quite good,but i'm sick of hearing the smarmy tw@t now.

At the age of 22 I've never really taken much interest in politics. I've watched both live debates very closely now and my vote will either be going to Brown or Clegg. I simply don't like that cunt Cameron.

At the age of 22 I've never really taken much interest in politics. I've watched both live debates very closely now and my vote will either be going to Brown or Clegg. I simply don't like that cunt Cameron.

 

Sums it up really for me

 

A popularity contest based on "liking" = voting for the big brother generation

 

 

As people, I never liked Sam Allardyce, but I did like Sammy lee.....hmmmmm.....

Clegg has elevated himself to Mr Popular with through the live debates,but i'm really beggining to dislike the bloke - he says "Sheffield,my city" - yet he was brought up in the home counties,went to his ?30,000 a year private school in Westminster, and now lives in his 2 million pound pad in Putney.

He's even posher and smarmier than Cameron.

Edited April 23, 201016 yr by Burndens Bogs

brown = megson and clegg = coyle perhaps?

 

and cameron is somewhere in the middle where we ought to be?

Edited April 23, 201016 yr by HomerJay

My contribution to this debate has mostly been to dismiss the myth that Gordon Brown is an economic genious. This latest gaff just proves that the bloke is in fact a buffoon!

http://blogs.ft.com/money-supply/2010/04/23/uk-election-2010-what-planet-is-gordon-on/