1. A significant amount of Scousers were disorderly beforehand

2. The police were disorganised during

3. The emergency services as a whole responded badly

4. There was no real cover up and Taylor's report was by and large correct.

 

Scousers will deny item 1 and feed on items 2 and 3

How dare people have an opinion on something that doesn't fit eh.

Notwithstanding real life blame and happenstance.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if God imposed Hillsborough on Liverpool fans because of their actions at Heysel.

 

Karma.

 

Because of Heysel, it isn't surprising that the media (and public) quickly apportioned the blame on Liverpool fans.

 

I do hope that "community leaders" amongst Liverpool fans say soon that "enough is enough" and that now that the "truth" is out, request that it stops now.

 

To go through blame from their end and demand compo will leave them being detested again.

 

 

We will never get the full truth, this ain't black and white.

I'm getting rather bored of being referred to as stupid because I'm questioning the detail of the "truth"

 

I'm not even saying its not the truth, I just want to know why certain questions aren't being asked.

 

How can the truth be established if all the questions aren't even asked and then the answers queried if necessary?

So who are the sheep here, just so I get it right?

Baaa

The woolly types

I'm watching

this video of all the news programmes surrounding the disaster and I feel truly sorry for the families of the dead.

 

This might not be PC... but a good few on here know about match day and the booze culture... All reason goes out the window, and while the police and match organisation left a lot to be desired.... without thousands of pissed up Scousers turning up at the last minute the disaster wouldn't have happened.

 

All the rest of the failings were in coping with the volatile situation.

 

 

Scousers need to do what I have done realise that the downfalls in life have 2 common factors every time... me and drink

So some of you still believe that Hillsbrough happened because of drink. Nothing else. Pathetic.

Ok, I get it, scousers fought for justice, the police fucked up and then covered up and I guess the apologies from all concerned go some way to showing the Liverpool fans had a point all these years

 

As do those who, including me, believe certain Liverpool fans are not blameless, regardless of football culture in them days

 

But, if we are to tow the line that the police should've stopped what happened, does that mean the Belgian police and stewarding at heysel are to blame for those deaths, because that's what you did in them days, stormed terracing?

 

I don't believe my view to be anti Scouse, I appreciate what they've been fighting for, am just wanting to see the bigger, whole picture

So some of you still believe that Hillsbrough happened because of drink. Nothing else. Pathetic.

 

That's not what I said.. it is the primary trigger and the rest of the events that happened after wouldn't have gone wrong withput that trigger.

 

Fuckin hell... I'm as guilty as anyone of that behaviour

So some of you still believe that Hillsbrough happened because of drink. Nothing else. Pathetic.

 

So you think people actually think that???

 

Are you really that simple?

Ok, I get it, scousers fought for justice, the police fucked up and then covered up and I guess the apologies from all concerned go some way to showing the Liverpool fans had a point all these years

 

As do those who, including me, believe certain Liverpool fans are not blameless, regardless of football culture in them days

 

But, if we are to tow the line that the police should've stopped what happened, does that mean the Belgian police and stewarding at heysel are to blame for those deaths, because that's what you did in them days, stormed terracing?

 

I don't believe my view to be anti Scouse, I appreciate what they've been fighting for, am just wanting to see the bigger, whole picture

 

Convictions were made for Heysel, people went to jail, the club faced a ban, that is justice !

So some of you still believe that Hillsbrough happened because of drink. Nothing else. Pathetic.

 

No no no no no you daft shite.

 

Heysel. It never gets a mention does it? The reason being that the Italians accepted that both sides had to share the blame - they were just the ones in the wrong part of the stadium. Just think if the Liverpool fans had been near that wall.....

 

As for Hillsborough, it was just utterly shit all round but for LFC fans to not even accept 1% of the blame is ridiculous. Of course the poilce got it wrong, no-one is denying that. But why oh why can't LFC fans just hold their hands up and say "Yep, it was a fuck up but everyone chipped in"???

 

And no, my opinion would be no different if it was BWFC.

 

As Smiffs mentions, we ALL know what going to the football was like in those days. There were few angels in those crowds.

I keep reading reports of people saying that the blood alcohol levels of the dead were low... of course they were.. they were the poor innocents at the front who turned up early and were already in the ground.

 

I know a lad quite well who was quite severely injured in the disaster and he tells me I'm wrong... but this is just my opinion... and nobody listens to me

Convictions were made for Heysel, people went to jail, the club whole of English football faced a ban, that is justice !

 

Let's tidy that up straightaway shall we?

Nice of Cameron to make a full apology

 

 

But there aren't many votes for him in Liverpool

So some of you still believe that Hillsbrough happened because of drink. Nothing else. Pathetic.

 

Quote those posts or fuck off, choice is yours.

 

 

So you think people actually think that???

 

Are you really that simple?

 

So mate from reading this thread, people are suggesting lfc fans where drinking which caused Hillsbrough. That's what I can ascertain. If I'm wrong and people are not suggesting drink was the cause of lfc's blame. How are the the Liverpool fans partly responsible

 

 

Quote those posts or fuck off, choice is yours.

I'm watching

this video of all the news programmes surrounding the disaster and I feel truly sorry for the families of the dead.

 

This might not be PC... but a good few on here know about match day and the booze culture... All reason goes out the window, and while the police and match organisation left a lot to be desired.... without thousands of pissed up Scousers turning up at the last minute the disaster wouldn't have happened.

 

All the rest of the failings were in coping with the volatile situation.

 

 

Scousers need to do what I have done realise that the downfalls in life have 2 common factors every time... me and drink

 

Good enough for you

Good enough for you

 

 

sigh

 

 

"Drink and me"

 

 

Taking personal responsibility for one's own life; not what scousers are renowned for.

 

 

RIP the 96

Good enough for you

 

Fair enough, that's ONE person. Take it up with Jazza, not everyone.

Edited September 13, 201213 yr by Carlos

Like I give a fuck

 

So mate from reading this thread, people are suggesting lfc fans where drinking which caused Hillsbrough. That's what I can ascertain. If I'm wrong and people are not suggesting drink was the cause of lfc's blame. How are the the Liverpool fans partly responsible

 

What difference does it make if you were sober or drunk, surely it's if you have got a ticket or not!

Let's tidy that up straightaway shall we?

 

Hmmm I know you are right, but lets not drag football banter and arguments, and us being 'bitter' into it, as thats about football. This to me is nothing about football really.

 

 

Fair enough, that's ONE person. Take it up with Jazza, not everyone.

If I'm honest pal I'm on a Bolton forum and a new member and a evertonian, so I did not want to start taking one person to task. It's just that what I'm trying to understand people are still saying scousers are at in some part to blame. I'm asking how in people's opinion do people think LFC fans contribute to Hillsbrough? The only respons seems to be drink. This can't be proved and is not fact. What is fact is what came to light yesterday. People go on about heysel but that is a different matter. We are debating Hillsbrough and what happened there. As for heysel as a evertonian I feel agrived more than the average football fan over that, as in my opinion we had just won the cup winners cup and I believe had the team to challenge for the european cup but we never got the chance, we suffered massively because of heysel and the ban, So this is not me saying LFC fans are always innocent. They are not. However where Hillsbrough is concerned they where made to be scapegoats and the mud threw at them has stuck. They where innocent and in no way shape of form did LFC fans contribute to Hillsbrough.

If I'm honest pal I'm on a Bolton forum and a new member and a evertonian, so I did not want to start taking one person to task. It's just that what I'm trying to understand people are still saying scousers are at in some part to blame. I'm asking how in people's opinion do people think LFC fans contribute to Hillsbrough? The only respons seems to be drink. This can't be proved and is not fact. What is fact is what came to light yesterday. People go on about heysel but that is a different matter. We are debating Hillsbrough and what happened there. As for heysel as a evertonian I feel agrived more than the average football fan over that, as in my opinion we had just won the cup winners cup and I believe had the team to challenge for the european cup but we never got the chance, we suffered massively because of heysel and the ban, So this is not me saying LFC fans are always innocent. They are not. However where Hillsbrough is concerned they where made to be scapegoats and the mud threw at them has stuck. They where innocent and in no way shape of form did LFC fans contribute to Hillsbrough.

 

 

So Liverpool fans 100% innocent?