I guess point is though that you don't need to make a profit from the first time a player does this for you.  The fact that he's taken the bribe means you've got him by the nuts and it's not going to be £70k next time...

 

Nail on head.

 

I've tried to keep out of this thread, mainly because im bored to death of people asking me about it.

 

If anyone thinks you can walk into a bookies on the high street and get more than £20 quid on a lower league player getting a yellow card is living on another planet.

 

Its not about spot fixing (like the media wrongly reported about the cricket no balls fix)

 

no one is making money on someone  getting a yellow card

 

You can get, literally millions on asian handicap and match totals

 

fixers are paying the players to get a red card/give away pens, they're betting on the team to lose, not the spot.

2 Trashmeres so far.

Investigation over, their manager is a witless Cockney, ex Munich headcase.

3 Sodje brothers and Ian Goodison as well as the other 2 named

  The fact that he's taken the bribe means you've got him by the nuts and it's not going to be £70k next time...

 

As garrp as already said: spot on.

In hearing a Miss LD Mckenzie is being investigated for putting at bet on Aston Villa reaching the FA cup final 13 years ago.

Goodison now alleged to be involved, he stunk of corruption when he defended well against us in the cup.

DJ Campbell has said he's available for selection in this weekends 2:1 home defeat to Millwall.

Problem is, the fact that the lack of integrity has gone into the football league - is how far could you go.

 

ie card affects the players performance / team performance, result against the opposing team, games missed because of the

    suspension etc

 

Could really open a can of worms.

 

Then you ask the questions - why am I paying to watch something that has an element of staging in it ? and so on

Didn't that happen to wrestling in the 70's?

Correct, it's about the only sport that is clean I reckon

It all started with cricket surely? Indian cricket players, South African captain Hanse Cronje and the suspicious death of Bob Woolmer

Edited December 9, 201312 yr by JamesBond

It all started with cricket surely? Indian cricket players, South African captain Hanse Cronje and the suspicious death of Bob Woolmer

I wasn't being serious.....

It all started with cricket surely? Indian cricket players, South African captain Hanse Cronje and the suspicious death of Bob Woolmer

 

Cricket is just as bad, did you not see Pakistan bowling no balls on purpose, oh no.

I'm still not seeing the profit in this

 

Sodje says on the Sun tape that he got £70k for this red card. He got the red late on, did it effect the result? It certainly didn't guarantee it. How do you make that size guaranteed return on a spot fix red card?

 

If the fixer and money men are looking to dupe players in then blackmail them to do whatever it certainly didn't look that way as Sodje was selling his services / showing the video to another fixer.

 

Surely if the first guys where blackmailing him then he would have been put off doing it again let alone bragging about it?

Edited December 9, 201312 yr by birch-chorley

He could also be bull shitting about the amount.

Very true

 

If someone came along and said Bogdan got £70k for the Yeovil game then I would believe you!!!

I'm still not seeing the profit in this

 

Sodje says on the Sun tape that he got £70k for this red card. He got the red late on, did it effect the result? It certainly didn't guarantee it. How do you make that size guaranteed return on a spot fix red card?

 

If the fixer and money men are looking to dupe players in then blackmail them to do whatever it certainly didn't look that way as Sodje was selling his services / showing the video to another fixer.

 

Surely if the first guys where blackmailing him then he would have been put off doing it again let alone bragging about it?

 

right, in pure basic terms

 

No one is making money on the actual spot fix, be that a yellow card or a red card.

 

Asian Handicaps are done in quarter balls. 0 ball, 0.25 ball, 0.5 ball, 0.75 ball, 1 ball, 1.25 ball etc etc etc

 

Based on team A's supremacy over Team B's

 

You can getting as much on these as you want, in pretty much every league in the world

 

A red card is worth roughly 1 whole goal supremacy

 

To simplify things, Wolves top of league 1 play Oldham in 15th. Wolves are roughly 1 ball favourites on the asian handicap. If you know Wolves are going to be down to 10 men, that effectively makes the true handicap 0ball, or in normal terms an even game. 

 

the yellow card story is just the newspaper/fixer seeing if the player can be influenced.

right, in pure basic terms

 

No one is making money on the actual spot fix, be that a yellow card or a red card.

 

Asian Handicaps are done in quarter balls. 0 ball, 0.25 ball, 0.5 ball, 0.75 ball, 1 ball, 1.25 ball etc etc etc

 

Based on team A's supremacy over Team B's

 

You can getting as much on these as you want, in pretty much every league in the world

 

A red card is worth roughly 1 whole goal supremacy

 

To simplify things, Wolves top of league 1 play Oldham in 15th. Wolves are roughly 1 ball favourites on the asian handicap. If you know Wolves are going to be down to 10 men, that effectively makes the true handicap 0ball, or in normal terms an even game. 

 

the yellow card story is just the newspaper/fixer seeing if the player can be influenced.

Interesting. Presumably also once a player has taken a bung - and you know it - then there's also a good chance it's going to weigh a bit heavily on them (career could end any minute if someone spills the beans etc)? Thus put them off their normal game and thus change the balance in individual matches for a while?

The thing is that there's little profit in the 70k bung, but it does then "buy" that player for life, whereby three games later he's doing it for free, for fear of being exposed.

That's where the profit kicks in.

 

It's like the old trick with the heroin dealers giving the first one free.

If he ends up skint and living in a caravan, he can borrow Efe's tow bar.

The thing is that there's little profit in the 70k bung, but it does then "buy" that player for life, whereby three games later he's doing it for free, for fear of being exposed.

That's where the profit kicks in.

 

It's like the old trick with the heroin dealers giving the first one free.

 

I'd have thought though, that there was still an element of player power - if the fixers want footballers to fix games for them, last thing they want to be doing is exposing anyone who doesn't play ball - as anyone who is bent would stay well away once one gets outed/blackmailed

 

if sodje knows 10 players who'll be up for it as well, then they threaten to blackmail him, then his 10 mates don't do it...

 

no?

One thing that always strikes me is that the bookmakers are often referred to as illegal or similar.

 

Seems strange that players get prosecuted for cheating illegal bookmakers.

 

I know other people lose money as well but how can you defraud something that is already illegal.

One thing that always strikes me is that the bookmakers are often referred to as illegal or similar.

 

Seems strange that players get prosecuted for cheating illegal bookmakers.

 

I know other people lose money as well but how can you defraud something that is already illegal.

Because the integrity of the sport is affected potentially defrauding thousands of spectators who "pay their wages"?

I'd have thought though, that there was still an element of player power - if the fixers want footballers to fix games for them, last thing they want to be doing is exposing anyone who doesn't play ball - as anyone who is bent would stay well away once one gets outed/blackmailed

 

if sodje knows 10 players who'll be up for it as well, then they threaten to blackmail him, then his 10 mates don't do it...

 

no?

That's where I'm at

 

If blackmailing for future favours was the key to making money then not many would fall foul let alone show off their services to a sun reporter ala sodje

 

Thanks garp for giving your steer on it but im still struggling to see how a player getting sent off in the second half really moves the needle in the ways of potential outcome. Is this match fixing or match influencing?

 

You would have to be betting millions every week and bunging 2/3 players in each of the games you bet in to get a return worth the hassle if its just influencing.

Because the integrity of the sport is affected potentially defrauding thousands of spectators who "pay their wages"?

 

i'm sure ani gets that

 

i'm less sure that not trying to win a football match is a crime

That's where I'm at

 

If blackmailing for future favours was the key to making money then not many would fall foul let alone show off their services to a sun reporter ala sodje

 

Thanks garp for giving your steer on it but im still struggling to see how a player getting sent off in the second half really moves the needle in the ways of potential outcome. Is this match fixing or match influencing?

 

You would have to be betting millions every week and bunging 2/3 players in each of the games you bet in to get a return worth the hassle if its just influencing.

 

 

I've no idea how a fixer influences a player whatsoever, other than this isolated incident in the paper about the yellow card being nothing more than a fixer/newspaper seeing if they can get a player onside. There is categorically no way you can make money from a player receiving a yellow card, having shelled out 70k.

 

Second point. This is the thing, I can see why you don't understand it and that's why the guy from the FA on sky today said its nothing to worry about as their investigations show bla bla. Its been going on in this country for 10 years, but the people investigating don't understand how it works.

 

Asian handicaps are completely different to handicaps that people in this country know. If you go into a bookies and ask for a handicap on a match you get a 3 way market

 

Team A -1

Draw

Team B +1

 

Asian handicap are only two way markets.

 

Team A 0

Team B 0

 

Team A -0.25

Team B +0.25

 

Team A -0.5

Team B +0.5

 

etc etc etc - see here for how they work - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_handicap#Whole_handicaps_and_draws

 

Now, the key is, the majority of the bent betting is done in-play. Not all, but the majority.

 

So lets take an even game, where both teams are 0ball. See the grid for how that works.

 

So we could have Arsenal v Chelsea. both teams are playing off zero ball.

 

They key is, once a goal is scored, asian handicaps inplay do not change.

 

So Arsenal go 1-0, the handicap is still Arsenal 0 v Chelsea 0 - in play you just bet from the point your bet is placed.

 

So Arsenal could be 3-0 up after 65 minutes.

 

If you bet in the 66th minute the handicap is still 0 ball, you are effectively betting as if the game was still 0-0.

 

So Arsenal are 3-0 after 66 minutes , the asian handicap still make the game even (0 ball handicap) - from that point onwards, as if it was 0-0.

 

So, in this instance, if you know Arsenal player is getting sent in the 70th minute, you placed your bet in the 69th minute Chelsea 0 ball, knowing in the 71st minute, the handicap should be Chelsea -1.

 

So it doesn't necessarily matter when a player gets sent off, as long as your fixer knows when he has to have his bet on.

 

Does that make sense?