May 8, 201412 yr I apologise, I know it's not the done thing on here, should know better... Something must happen to America, some great disaster, they'd never sit by idle and watch us, their special friend and ally, be turned into a Muslim State without intervening in some way without there being a good reason i.e. Half their country being wiped out by a Tsunami
May 8, 201412 yr I apologise, I know it's not the done thing on here, should know better... Something must happen to America, some great disaster, they'd never sit by idle and watch us, their special friend and ally, be turned into a Muslim State without intervening in some way without there being a good reason i.e. Half their country being wiped out by a Tsunami Pissed I reckon.
May 8, 201412 yr I haven't been on the pop since February/March actually :p Not even a snifter... I don't need to be pissed to post bollocks.
May 8, 201412 yr I don't think we will neither of us are going to win this argument though no but its a great debate and one love i have rediscovered since going back in to education.
May 8, 201412 yr But thats just wrong, life can survive in all sorts of weird places. As for water coming from comets that is just an idea. There a couple of moons on jupiter with water. Saying you need a moon and a tidal system is also a little too precise. Life on earth has adapted and evolved to cope with tidal systems. Once bacteria or microbes evolve on a planet its has a chance to evolve. As I said Carbon oxygen hydrogen and nitrogen abounds in the universe that and a bit of sulphur is all thats needed. So sorry zico it does NOT have to be so precise. So it is all about the numbers and given that it was only 8 -10 years ago we found our first planet outside the solar system I reckon we will find a planets that are like ours within the next hundred years easily. Well for starters you need phosphorus, or it's fuck off DNA. But then that's everywhere as well. But the abundance of the elements is irrelvant. It's how life starts that matters; the tide idea has been touted suggesting that it was key as stuff got washed up, changed, and then upon washing back down chemistry took its course after umpteen cycles. But nobody knows - they really don't. And while indirect observations have revealed planets elsewhere, direct observation is very limited and only applies to massive things completely un-earth like. Even with the best idea of likely (decades) future technology, the separation between a star 100s of light years away and an earth orbiting planet would be one pixel, even if you find a way to cancel out the starlight itself. Short of a radio message we're going to have no idea what's out there - unless summat is found that independantly evolved in the solar sytem. Then it's game on, though where that then gets us is debatable. The key point is that the idea of life surviving in hostile environments is a complete red herring. Utterly irrelevant; it can evolve to survive in hyper-saline situations, under immense radioactivity, in under-sea volcanic plumes, and in Bacup. But unless it starts in the first place....
May 8, 201412 yr The key point is that the idea of life surviving in hostile environments is a complete red herring. Utterly irrelevant; it can evolve to survive in hyper-saline situations, under immense radioactivity, in under-sea volcanic plumes.. The point is how bloody persistent life is.
May 8, 201412 yr The point is how bloody persistent life is. But only if it fucking starts - that's the point! As Patrick Moore was always saying on Sky at Neet - "we just just don't fucking know"
May 8, 201412 yr But only if it fucking starts - that's the point! As Patrick Moore was always saying on Sky at Neet - "we just just don't fucking know" Like I said in post #61 when you were ascribing probabilities!
May 8, 201412 yr Like I said in post #61 when you were ascribing probabilities! Aye, but the longer we gone on not knowing despite best efforts, the less likely it would seem to have been. If there's fuck all chance of it starting, fuck all chance of it evolving beyond slime (or Leeds fans) and fuck all chance of smart beings surviving long then its fucked, and (insofar as "now" is meaningless on galactic terms thanks to Einstein) "now" it's probably just us. Anyhow, drinking heavily is the only real answer either way! I'm damn sure we're the only beings supping Henry Westons right now. Which makes you wonder where all the aliens are if there's quality cider on offer...and precise total eclipses. Both are unique, so where are the cunts??
May 9, 201412 yr Well for starters you need phosphorus, or it's fuck off DNA. But then that's everywhere as well. But the abundance of the elements is irrelvant. It's how life starts that matters; the tide idea has been touted suggesting that it was key as stuff got washed up, changed, and then upon washing back down chemistry took its course after umpteen cycles. But nobody knows - they really don't. And while indirect observations have revealed planets elsewhere, direct observation is very limited and only applies to massive things completely un-earth like. Even with the best idea of likely (decades) future technology, the separation between a star 100s of light years away and an earth orbiting planet would be one pixel, even if you find a way to cancel out the starlight itself. Short of a radio message we're going to have no idea what's out there - unless summat is found that independantly evolved in the solar sytem. Then it's game on, though where that then gets us is debatable. The key point is that the idea of life surviving in hostile environments is a complete red herring. Utterly irrelevant; it can evolve to survive in hyper-saline situations, under immense radioactivity, in under-sea volcanic plumes, and in Bacup. But unless it starts in the first place.... sorry forgot P! very remiss of me since i am just on the topic of genetics at the moment! I see where you are coming from but its like baking a cake. Life starts given the right ingredients which are those few elements that are abundant all over the universe with stars spewing them out when they die. then with an oxygenated planet with water it will start. There will be millions of these planets given the numbers i have talked about. No disrespect Greavsie, but i sort of interpret your argument as a bit like saying "if i plant a seed here on earth it will grow but if i plant it on another planet it won't because i haven't witnessed it germinate and grow on another planet with some resemblance of earth like conditions". Remember seeds still grow in a range of conditions, those conditions do not have to be precise. PS just on my third friday night bottle of wolf blass yellow label Cabernet Sauvignon, so agree that heavy drinking is the only way to brood on this matter
May 9, 201412 yr sorry forgot P! very remiss of me since i am just on the topic of genetics at the moment! I see where you are coming from but its like baking a cake. Life starts given the right ingredients which are those few elements that are abundant all over the universe with stars spewing them out when they die. then with an oxygenated planet with water it will start. There will be millions of these planets given the numbers i have talked about. No disrespect Greavsie, but i sort of interpret your argument as a bit like saying "if i plant a seed here on earth it will grow but if i plant it on another planet it won't because i haven't witnessed it germinate and grow on another planet with some resemblance of earth like conditions". Remember seeds still grow in a range of conditions, those conditions do not have to be precise. PS just on my third friday night bottle of wolf blass yellow label Cabernet Sauvignon, so agree that heavy drinking is the only way to brood on this matter Aye but a seed has only one purpose - to germinate and grow. There is no purpose in a slurry of disparate chemicals, and no evidence that they can make the leap to life. If there was we'd have shown it (and I know plenty of people working on it), or would be on the way. But we're not - bar showing that simple organic components form when basic stuff is combined (e.g. the Miller experiment). The New Horizons spacecraft will fly past Pluto next year and no doubt confirm the existence of tholins on the surface - shit generated over millenia by the action of the sun on chemicals. But all that is miles away from life. Trust me - the best thing you can do is drink heavily!
May 9, 201412 yr On your third bottle before half 8, good going is that, well done. I would be dribbling into my glass.
May 9, 201412 yr There is no purpose in a slurry of disparate chemicals, Yes there is though! Their purpose is to exist at the lowest energy level possible. That's why elements react to form compounds. The change in an environment these elements find themselves in changes the rules, so they react to those changing conditions. Biological life starts at the simplest levels. It is said that amino acids formed just 250 million years after the earth was formed. I could go on but my bottle is empty1 Edited May 9, 201412 yr by bgoefc
May 9, 201412 yr Yes there is though! Their purpose is to exist at the lowest energy level possible. That's why elements react to form compounds. The change in an environment these elements find themselves in changes the rules, so they react to those changing conditions. Biological life starts at the simplest levels. It is said that amino acids formed just 250 million years after the earth was formed. I could go on but my bottle is empty1 Amino acids are a piece of piss. They are not life. Life is not the lowest energy level, far from it. To say "biological life starts at the simplest levels" misses the point that we have only one data point on the graph. What's far, far beyond the production of amino acids etc is the collection into dna (or rna in the first instance) and the formation of cell membranes etc. Trust me - drink heavily!
May 9, 201412 yr Amino acids are a piece of piss. They are not life. Life is not the lowest energy level, far from it. Life will find a way! once you have a brick it meets another brick, that combination of bricks builds and eventually you have a house, but it does not stop there. Life forms because elements within it are constantly changing to find their lowest energy levels, probed and pushed by the sea change of different environments. This may not make sense as its now 3.5 x 75cl. @ 12.5%. I have also been watching how to win Eurovision on bbc3. something has happened. Edited May 9, 201412 yr by bgoefc
May 28, 201412 yr Oi Satan! Watched part of this last night - The Search for Life: The Drake Equation. "Dallas Campbell meets the scientists who have focused on the different aspects of the Drake Equation, which examines seven key elements necessary for ET intelligence to exist" On BBC2 iplayer but only for the next 16 hrs.
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